Author Topic: Un "$^%@ing" Believeable  (Read 2345 times)

Offline Raith

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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 06:51:33 PM »
Kinda like the CCW dilemma, Tim.  Once you get a Permit, you cede that its a privilege that can be permitted or denied rather than a right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Raith »
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Offline TimW

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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2006, 07:27:00 PM »
Quote from: "babybackribs"
So basically you're saying Ernest doesn't want you to vote because he doesn't want people to bitch?


In a way...if you vote, you can't bitch because you are just being a sore loser.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TimW »
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Offline Patty o' Brian

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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2006, 08:23:12 PM »
Quote from: "TimW"
Quote from: "babybackribs"
So basically you're saying Ernest doesn't want you to vote because he doesn't want people to bitch?

In a way...if you vote, you can't bitch because you are just being a sore loser.


 I always thought it should be run as almost the opposite. Where if you do not vote, then you forfiet(sp?) your right to protest. Because if you do not vote, then you can not really complain because you didn't want to take the time to vote in the first place.

Of course, that is only my opinion and i know that this would never happen because of the first amendment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Patty o' Brian »

Offline TimW

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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2006, 09:43:41 PM »
Quote from: "Patty o' Brian"
I always thought it should be run as almost the opposite. Where if you do not vote, then you forfiet(sp?) your right to protest. Because if you do not vote, then you can not really complain because you didn't want to take the time to vote in the first place.


Yes, that's a common belief and not entirely wrong.  However the point is that BECAUSE you participated in the process, and lost, you are merely being a sore loser because you didn't like the results.  See what the Democrats have been doing over the "stolen" elections since 2000 as an example.  Sore Losers.

Yeah...they participated and lost and are now whining about it.

If you all vote to take my wallet, and I vote against it and lose, do I really have a right to protest you taking my wallet?  By participating in the vote, I have tacitly agreed to support the outcome.  Just because my guess that nobody would think such a vote would be reasonable was incorrect doesn't mean crap.  So by complaining, I am being a sore loser.

Try voting and me telling you that anyone trying to take my wallet will get a broken hand...well, if you DO get my wallet, and I complain, then it's been a theft, not whining, because I didn't participate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TimW »
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Offline PolandsLeftTesticle

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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2006, 12:21:11 AM »
- If you decided to vote, you believed there should have been a vote on the subject in the first place, and agreed (assumedly) to accept the outcome.

- We had the lowest voter turn out this time (EDIT: overall), didn't we? If I'd asked the kids at my high school who they'd vote for (which, you know, most can't), at least a third of them would say "ANY Democrats," or they would say they wouldn't vote at all.

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2006, 12:25:39 AM by PolandsLeftTesticle »
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I never knew that three inches was the minimum length for a handgun barrel. I guess all of the anti-gun politicians wont be able to register their penises.

Offline Vince

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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2006, 12:23:00 AM »
I think the turnout here in Arizona was pretty damn good...the lady who runs our precinct was telling me she would have thought it was a Presidential year.

Tim is smart and I agree with a lot of what he says, including his ...R-RFQ to the State of California.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Vince »


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Offline dxh

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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2006, 12:41:24 AM »
Did all the precincts in AZ serve cookies at the polls, or was it just Deer Valley?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by dxh »
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Offline TimW

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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2006, 07:01:30 AM »
Quote from: "Vince"
, including his ...R-RFQ to the State of California.


You saw that, eh?

I still have the fax.  It was amazing.  However, not nearly as amazing as the COUNTY of Los Angeles...which had sent me a 29 page fax once for an RFQ for 5 EOTech sights.  2 pages were the cover/letter, 1 page was the RFQ details and 26 pages were bureaucratic bullshit stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by TimW »
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Offline dxh

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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2006, 10:04:33 PM »
Quote
Let's say we all are sitting around looking at each other's airsoft gear. I see DXH's gear and say "Let's have a vote to divvy up his gear. All in favor say "aye", all opposed "Nay"."

So, in the end, it's 6-1, with DXH being the lone "No" vote. We begin to divvy up his gear. He complains.

He voted, didn't he? Therefore he was sanctioning the results. By complaining now, he's just being a sore loser, right?

Yes, it does indeed imply a compliance with the decision.

Quote
Rewind a bit.

I call for the vote. It's 6-0. He doesn't vote. In fact, he says "anyone tries to take my gear, I'll have you arrested for theft" and perhaps implies physical protection of his goods.

By participating in the elections, you de facto agree to abide by the results, even if they are contrary to your beliefs or end up being, in some ways, unconstitutional.

Outisde of this scenario and back into national politics, the guys taking your gear and the guys with the power to arrest are one and the same;  For my particular political affiliation, the gear can easy parallel the 1/3 of my income taken by a government who's policies do not match my views.  Let's say this situation is one I'm not particularly happy with.  My vote, not having access to a powerful K-street lobbyist, is the one of the few means I have of bringing the state's interests closer to mine.

Now let's say I don't vote.  I tell the state that I will have them arrested for theft.  The IRS agent knocks down my door and have me arrested, while I try to explain to them that I sternly disagree with the situation and didn't vote for the establishment of an income tax.  I get thrown in jail, and drop the soap.  At this point, I really won't care whether I validated the system that created the situation, and neither would the state.  Instead, I would have wished I would have simply paid taxes until a new administration repealed them or until I had the ability to out-gun a nuclear-armed government and hold the ability to tell it to quit taking my gear without being thrown into prison.

By his logic, affiliation with a political party that participates in the political process and going so far as to run for government office do as much to comply with at least the continued existance of a Republic...ish state, which, if granting the same access to the ballot as the current represenative's, validates the legitimecy of the offices held by the people proverbially taking your gear.  Mr. Hancock participated into the democratic process even deeper so than a mere vote, so I don't see how he can justify encouraging people not to.

Quote
Ernie has a lot of knowledge about Arizona politics. Don't dismiss him out of hand.


Fair enough, he did display a well-founded concern for electronic voting.  However, his campaign style didn't exactly make it easy for the average voter not to dismiss him--and the entire Libertarian Party--as being a tad cooky.  Still, I'll admit that cooky is better than crooky, looking at some of the black sheep in those *other* parties.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by dxh »
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Offline dxh

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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2006, 11:17:38 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by dxh »
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