installing a spring

[gixser13]

when installing  a new spring in a AEG does it make a differnce which way it goes,  

tight coils go toward the piston or spring guide?

I alway thought the tight coils went toward the spring guide :?:

[Greg]

There was a really long debate about which way the spring goes on airsoftplayers a long time ago. I think the tighter coiled end is supposed to go on the guide, although I'm pretty sure the final decision of that asp thread was that it doesn't matter which way it goes in.

[gixser13]

I know I`m short about 15-20 fps right  now I should be at 390s. Right now I am shooting at 365-370. EVERYTHING ELSE  IS TIGHT AND SEALED!!!

I thought I would try the new Deepfire 120 Target FPS is 398s

I may go up to the Deepfire 130

Kinda sux cause I am at 340s with .25s

[Shado]

I was just trying to figure this same thing out today.  I found an article on another airsoft website that agreed with Greg.  If I can find the link, I'll send it.  That is how I went ahead and installed the spring.

[Ganef]

As I understand it, any spring under compression will try and find a way of counteracting the force placed on it either by bowing out to one side or by making the rings of the spring a bit larger. In the compression inside of the gun you have two ends one that is snug inside of the piston and one that is on a tapered spring guide. The spring guide is there to keep the spring from bowing out toward the side of the piston wall. Now deep down inside of the piston head the spring has no way of expanding the diameter of the rings because they are compressed by the piston walls but on the tapered spring guide the spring is free to expand and this can lead to unnessisary forces acting on the spring and can either break the spring or cause jamming as the larger rings bypass the stopping part of the spring guide. Springs that are engineered like the one in the picture are designed to counteract forces trying to bow the spring in the middle and the ends and to counteract the forces expanding the rings. They do this by placing the rings closer together and thus creating a stronger spring with a greater spring constant but with the same grade of hardened spring steel. All of this engineering in the middle and on the tapered end keeping the spring straight and the forces acting on it in a normal way so that you get the most bang for your buck and the most reliablility out of your spring. So that is the long version of why the end with the larger density of rings goes on the side with the spring guide.

[azsarge]

I have always put the end with more mass toward the rear like everyone else.

My reason being that the forward end travels (inside the piston), while the rear stays put (on the guide).  The less mass possessed by the traveling parts of the AEG, the faster it will cycle.

Whether or not that's true, I'm not sure.  I doubt the difference is noticeable, or will even affect FPS.

[War savage]

I have an ICS M4 with the same problem and did the same thing as far as installing it both ways. I have the stock setup with an M100 spring. We chronoed it today at 385fps. I tried installing an M120 spring and the end result was it is very obvious that it has dropped in FPS. So I just kept the M100 spring in. Its one of those mysteries that know one seems to be able to figure out.

[Firehead]

Was it an ITS M100, or a different brand? The ITS m100(Jt brand) actually hits like a 120 should...but harder.

[woody]

I have an ICS M4 with the same problem and did the same thing as far as installing it both ways. I have the stock setup with an M100 spring. We chronoed it today at 385fps. I tried installing an M120 spring and the end result was it is very obvious that it has dropped in FPS. So I just kept the M100 spring in. Its one of those mysteries that know one seems to be able to figure out.

Interesting. Greg put a 120 spirng in my ICS M4 and it helped a little but not near what we thought. It still chronos, as of yesterday at 290. We put in a differnet piston seal and I think a couple of other enhancements but still can't get above 300 fps. Frustrating.....

[gixser13]

well I guess I should be happy with my 360s then!

[RangerBob]

I've got a few more posts before I can make new topic, but this is a valid question and unfortunately not related(directly) to the topic I put it in.

I personally have no clue how to work on airsoft AEG's, I played with a GBB pistol (Beretta 93R) and made it go from 3 round burst to a full auto, so I'm a little concerned about opening an AEG even for minor stuff (I know what I did to the pistol, so if anyone wants it done, let me know )

At any rate, I mentioned in my introduction that I had 2 AEGs that had been sitting for several years, and got guidance on what repair/maintenance I might need for them.  Im wondering if I should simply take them up to JT (No idea of it's rep, but heard it mentioned several times on the boards here now) or should I really attempt the work myself?  since im considering some upgrading, maybe JT would be my best bet.  Otherwise, anyone want to help?


ALSO:  About the spring question
If the spring has an end with tighter coils and one looser coiled end there is a reason for it (Unfortunately I dont know what the design idea was for the springs use)
Stationary end |######    <Direction of pressure
Hard to explain in typed letters.
Looser coils on base (Stationary end) mean less pressure to initiate the compression, almost giving  a collapse to the spring with a quicker release once pressure is removed, assuming pressure is removed quickly.
Tighter coils on base would give an nearly equal compression, but it may not collapse entirely down (If whatever is applying pressure wasnt designed to put enough force to collapse what the resistance is in the tighter coils.)
Yes, like i thought...hard to explain in words.  My guess would be to put the tighter coils at base, it seems more likely to lend itself to the launching something fast idea.

[Phreakish]

RangerBob: I can't agree - what Ganef said is very reasonable and true to life, and probably right on.  A spring will take the SAME pressure to compress it, no matter what end you push on... And, whatever pressure you put on one end, will be felt by the other end.  The lower density of coils WILL deform first - Or any part of the spring that has a greater wire diameter.  

Also, what was said about having fewer coils at the end of the spring that is seated in the piston is also correct - less mass moving means a higher acceleration, which means a higher ROF.  And so long as your spring doesn't expand in diameter due to the pressure, you probably also wouldn't notice an FPS difference, or much of an ROF difference either way - but its best to always take the best way, even if the gains are extremely small...

Also, take a look at valve springs in a modern engine, many are conical shaped (smaller diameter on the stem end than at the base end, with larger coil spacing toward the top also).  This has the same effect, allowing engines to rev higher w/o valve float issues - and allowing an easier job of the cam during the initial compression, since the farther-spaced coils will collapse easier, with less wear put on the cam lobe to wear it out.  But the overall gain is mostly due to the fact that less mass is being used (with valve-trains, you also have a smaller retainer at the top with a smaller diameter spring, another gain, but we dont have that in our guns...).

I'm a newbie to the forum, but not forums in general.  I apologize in advance to anyone who thinks I'm trolling - but I was linked here from another thread started by another user today, and I"m adding useful info tell me to keep quiet if I shouldn't have posted - I wont take it hard