Author Topic: Israeli Aggression in Lebanon...  (Read 13646 times)

Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2006, 07:22:55 AM »
Quote from: "Rolundo"
if only it can be this simple lol


[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png[img]

If only these lines were kept. The only thing the Palestinians have now is Gaza and decent size chunk of the interior of the country.

Quote
i don't have to disagree with you. history, however, does.

should i start with ancient history, or the modern one ? you don't seem to even know where the word "Palestine" comes from, left aside the "poor, mistreated Palestinian people"...


When did I not demonstrate knowledge of the word Palestine? I said early in the thread that Britain controlled the territories that are now referred to as Israel and Palestine. These colonies were called Trans-jordan and Palestine. After WWII, in 1948, the UN voted to split up this territory because most other countries had given up their colonial holdings. In addition, some of the Jewish refugees from the Holocaust were part of the Zionist movement to form a Jewish homeland. In the wake of that atrocity, the world voted to give them one, which was created out of Trans-jordan and Palestine thus uprooting anyone who was living there prior to 1948. This is where both Palestinian, and "poor, mistreated Palestinian" comes from.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Cheeze_IZ_G00d »
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Offline southpaw

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« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2006, 11:23:52 AM »
i love it when israel goes to war...
cus the other side always thinks they have a chance!
didn't they learn anything from the porum wars!?!?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by southpaw »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2006, 01:01:43 PM »
Quote from: "Cheeze_IZ_G00d"

When did I not demonstrate knowledge of the word Palestine? I said early in the thread that Britain controlled the territories that are now referred to as Israel and Palestine. These colonies were called Trans-jordan and Palestine. After WWII, in 1948, the UN voted to split up this territory because most other countries had given up their colonial holdings. In addition, some of the Jewish refugees from the Holocaust were part of the Zionist movement to form a Jewish homeland. In the wake of that atrocity, the world voted to give them one, which was created out of Trans-jordan and Palestine thus uprooting anyone who was living there prior to 1948. This is where both Palestinian, and "poor, mistreated Palestinian" comes from.


wrong.

***

the name "Palestina" (later transmuted to "Palestine") was given by Romans, after the desecration of the 2nd Temple in 70 AD, following the Jewish revolt against Romans (note that Judea/Samaria were provinces under Roman Empire); the purpose of the given name was to root out the link between the people and the land.

the population back then was mixed, since the land was conquered hundreds of years before by Babylonians, who deported large part of the population. then, when the Greeks/Macedonians conquered the Persians, there was a Greek influx.

note that the whole shebang around the area was because it was a center of a major trade route coming from Egypt.

naturally, the migration was very high and a lot of ethnicities were mixed.

still, despite all the deportations and revolts (there was another one in 135AD, known as Bar-Kochba revolt), Jews kept coming back. they mostly populated the northern areas (biblical citiy of Zfat, for example), with small groups in Jerusalem.

and only in 638AD, Jerusalem was conquered by Muslims, which declared all non-Muslims (Jews and Christians) 2nd class citizens, killing the pagans in the process. there was some migration, but the population largely remained the same.

in 1071AD, the Seljuk Turks conquered Jerusalem. then, the crusades came. over the next few centuries, the majority of the population became Arabic speaking Muslims. that doesn't mean the population was replaced by Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, just that they converted their language and religion. the Turkish Ottoman Empire took over in 1517 and invited Jews from the Mediterranean area to resettle in the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine.

the 19th Century was one of change. the Napoleonic wars and the mismanagement of the Ottoman Empire caused a lot of the population to leave for better locales. the Zionist movement started and Jewish and ethnic Arab population started to grow. by 1880, out of a population of 400,000, 24,000 (6%)were Jews. by 1914 the population had risen to 700,000 and the Jewish population was 85-100,000 (12-14%).

the British and French came to an agreement on how they were going to divide the Ottoman Empire in the ME. the only problem was, Britain also promised some of the same land to their Arab allies (Lawrence of Arabia) in exchange for help against the Turks. the Brits established the British Mandate area for a Jewish and Palestinean state that later became Trans-Jordan.

***

that's quite a piece of history you've missed.

now, for the "mistreated Palestinians". i'm pretty tired of typing, but i strongly suggest you to google "Black September" and "Egypt in Gaza".

also, you'll be pretty surprised to find out that the territories occupied (never annexed - which was a mistake) during the 6 Days War in 1967 (East Jerusalem, Samaria etc) and Yom Kippur War in 1973 (Sinai, Gaza strip), have _no_relation_whatsoever_ to the so-called "Palestinian people". as a matter of fact, the name "Palestinian people" was never heard before 1964. and while you're on it, google "Israeli Arabs" too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline Farslayer

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« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2006, 01:11:08 PM »
Damn!! somebody got schooled!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline busta_cap

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« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2006, 01:52:38 PM »
Quote from: Farslayer
Damn!! somebody got schooled!
+1. I love interweb fighting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by busta_cap »

Offline Cheeze_IZ_G00d

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« Reply #110 on: August 12, 2006, 08:23:17 PM »
Wait, didn't you state in the beginning of your post that the word Palestine came from the year 70 AD? Also, isn't what you said just a lead up to what I did? Frankly, who had the rights to land in the first centuries of this millenium is irrelevant to me personally, although that was an interesting read.
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #111 on: August 12, 2006, 08:36:43 PM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
now, for the "mistreated Palestinians". i'm pretty tired of typing, but i strongly suggest you to google "Black September" and "Egypt in Gaza".

while you're on it, google "Israeli Arabs" too.


I didn't google any of those.

But I did type in "Israeli oppression of palestinians" and got over 3.2 million results.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #112 on: August 12, 2006, 11:49:52 PM »
Quote from: "Cheeze_IZ_G00d"
Wait, didn't you state in the beginning of your post that the word Palestine came from the year 70 AD? Also, isn't what you said just a lead up to what I did? Frankly, who had the rights to land in the first centuries of this millenium is irrelevant to me personally, although that was an interesting read.

reading comprehension is fun :roll: i dont have time to educate you, son, but i strongly suggest learning more, posting less.

Quote from: "djmtott"
Quote from: "Qulevra"
now, for the "mistreated Palestinians". i'm pretty tired of typing, but i strongly suggest you to google "Black September" and "Egypt in Gaza".

while you're on it, google "Israeli Arabs" too.

I didn't google any of those.

But I did type in "Israeli oppression of palestinians" and got over 3.2 million results.


that's too bad. try it, you'll learn something new.

p.s. i just typed in "American oppression of Indians" and got the same result. does it mean ya'll should be tried for an attempted genocide of native American population ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #113 on: August 12, 2006, 11:59:29 PM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
p.s. i just typed in "American oppression of Indians" and got the same result. does it mean ya'll should be tried for an attempted genocide of native American population ?
No. Tell me who alive is responsible for genocide against American Indians.

The Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been likened to the treatment of Africans by the South African white minority, labelled as Apartheid.

In my opinion, if I turned on CNN and saw Syrian or Iranian tanks rolling victorious in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, I think the world would be a safer place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2006, 12:15:45 AM »
Quote from: "djmtott"
Quote from: "Qulevra"
p.s. i just typed in "American oppression of Indians" and got the same result. does it mean ya'll should be tried for an attempted genocide of native American population ?
No. Tell me who alive is responsible for genocide against American Indians.

The Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been likened to the treatment of Africans by the South African white minority, labelled as Apartheid.

In my opinion, if I turned on CNN and saw Syrian or Iranian tanks rolling victorious in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, I think the world would be a safer place.


that's just hilarious :lol: using your own logic, who do you think should be tried for "oppression of Palestinians" ? i want a full list - name, dates, crimes etc.
tabloids don't count, history books do.

and regarding your last little gem - that's the quickest way to get banned. i hope the mods here will agree.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2006, 12:22:32 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
that's just hilarious :lol: using your own logic, who do you think should be tried for "oppression of Palestinians" ? i want a full list - name, dates, crimes etc. tabloids don't count, history books do.

and regarding your last little gem - that's the quickest way to get banned. i hope the mods here will agree.
Laughable. I'm not a private investigator, and I'm not going to research the information just to satisfy you. It would take teams of investigators months to fully investigate and charge those responsible.

And for my last little 'gem'... as I said, it's my opinion. Are you infavor of banning people because their opinion differs from yours? I didn't use any profanity, nor did I use any racial slurs or stereotypes.
I stick by what I said, and if my opinion is against the rules of the site then I'll keep it to myself.
I just firmly believe that if Israel was to be toppled/conquered and the US military pulls out of the region, I believe radical fundamentalist terrorism towards the United States would be dramaticly reduced to almost nothing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Vince

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« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2006, 12:35:45 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"

and regarding your last little gem - that's the quickest way to get banned. i hope the mods here will agree.


Alright, for the record, I agree with you. Israel is great, but hey man -- this is Airsoft Arizona, not Airsoft Southwestern Contiguous United States of America. djmtott lives here, and doesn't seem retarded or under the age of say, 14, so, there's a very slim chance any sort of moderation would take place. This might be the Internet, but this is a local forum by local people, for local people, so, please exhibit the correct amount of deference.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Vince »


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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2006, 12:41:30 AM »
Quote from: "djmtott"
Quote from: "Qulevra"
that's just hilarious :lol: using your own logic, who do you think should be tried for "oppression of Palestinians" ? i want a full list - name, dates, crimes etc. tabloids don't count, history books do.

and regarding your last little gem - that's the quickest way to get banned. i hope the mods here will agree.
Laughable. I'm not a private investigator, and I'm not going to research the information just to satisfy you. It would take teams of investigators months to fully investigate and charge those responsible.

And for my last little 'gem'... as I said, it's my opinion. Are you infavor of banning people because their opinion differs from yours? I didn't use any profanity, nor did I use any racial slurs or stereotypes.
I stick by what I said, and if my opinion is against the rules of the site then I'll keep it to myself.
I just firmly believe that if Israel was to be toppled/conquered and the US military pulls out of the region, I believe radical fundamentalist terrorism towards the United States would be dramaticly reduced to almost nothing.


oh, i get it. you're all talk but no walk.

i'm in favor of banning smartass guys like you for bloodthirsty ideas and indirect insults. just out of curiosity - how long do you think, a user account would live on these boards if a person behind it would post something similar, but regarding US ?

and sorry, your firmly believes have nothing to do with reality. maybe you _should_ do some reading after all, eh ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2006, 12:42:22 AM »
Quote from: "Vince"
Alright, for the record, I agree with you. Israel is great, but hey man -- this is Airsoft Arizona, not Airsoft Southwestern Contiguous United States of America. djmtott lives here, and doesn't seem retarded or under the age of say, 14, so, there's a very slim chance any sort of moderation would take place. This might be the Internet, but this is a local forum by local people, for local people, so, please exhibit the correct amount of deference.


That point is still up for debate though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2006, 12:50:42 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
oh, i get it. you're all talk but no walk.


Fine... Here's the 2005 Amnesty International report on Israel and the Occupied Territories
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng

Allow me to quote some of my favorie parts...

"The Israeli army killed more than 700 Palestinians, including some 150 children. Most were killed unlawfully — in reckless shooting, shelling and air strikes in civilian residential areas; in extrajudicial executions; and as a result of excessive use of force."

"Stringent restrictions imposed by the Israeli army on the movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories caused widespread poverty and unemployment and hindered access to health and education facilities. The Israeli army destroyed several hundred Palestinian homes, large areas of agricultural land, and infrastructure networks. Israel continued to expand illegal settlements and to build a fence/wall through the West Bank, confining Palestinians in isolated enclaves cut off from their land and essential services in nearby towns and villages. Israeli settlers increased their attacks against Palestinians and their property and against international human rights workers. Certain abuses committed by the Israeli army constituted crimes against humanity and war crimes, including unlawful killings; extensive and wanton destruction of property; obstruction of medical assistance and targeting of medical personnel; torture; and the use of Palestinians as “human shieldsâ€￾. "

Don't get me wrong, the militant Palestinians are not heroes by any stretch of the imagination, but as the local government you'd expect more from the Israeli government/military.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil, for I am the baddest mother f****r in the valley!"