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Author Topic: Israeli Aggression in Lebanon...  (Read 13647 times)

Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2006, 01:01:37 AM »
please, save the BS for someone else.

read my last 'bout tabloids - if you consider Amnesty, CPT and the rest for reliable source, we have little to talk about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2006, 01:08:44 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
please, save the BS for someone else.

read my last 'bout tabloids - if you consider Amnesty, CPT and the rest for reliable source, we have little to talk about.
By all means, if you can provide me links to better information, not Israeli propaganda, then I would certainly take a look.

Until then I stand by my opinions and my information.

On a side note; I'm not anti-semetic, and I don't have anything against the general Israeli populace. I don't hate you, and you're welcome to your own opinion.

I won't hate you until you say something bad about the Pittsburgh Steelers, mom's apple pie, the american way of life, Camaros, or Hugh Hefner... do that and then we might have a problem.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2006, 01:14:04 AM »
http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=1479

plus, consider googling whatever you haven't. it'll give you a lot of insight on what's really going on. Black September in Jordan and civil war in Lebanon are only the tip of the iceberg.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2006, 01:23:56 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=1479

plus, consider googling whatever you haven't. it'll give you a lot of insight on what's really going on. Black September in Jordan and civil war in Lebanon are only the tip of the iceberg.
Your link is purely an OpEd article and shouldn't be used as fact.
When a news article uses the words, whine, gripe and cowardice, you know it's not fact-driven journalism.

As far as Black September and the civil war in Lebanon, I am not in disagreement that there are many militant factions in the Middle East region, and none of them should be considered saints.

My opinion is geared more towards the Israeli/Palestinian dynamic, and even though that is in play to an extent, I believe it is outside the scope of this thread, so I won't comment further on that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Uchiha Itachi

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« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2006, 01:33:05 AM »
djmtott: You used a direct quote and took parts out of it. That makes your credibility ZERO on any evidence you may bring forth. And the fact you didn't take the time to realize the article explains alot of that quote and how it happens.

For intance the "hostage" was only explained via 1 example of soldiers doing it once. Which had been banned under Isreali high law to be used. Or the fact that most Isreali civi kills were unintentional and cased by crossfire or simply "wrong place wrong time". While Palestian attacks where directed at civies.

I know nothing of this "extrajudicial executions" since this is a terrible evidence source. I doubt any of it is credible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Uchiha Itachi »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2006, 01:50:54 AM »
Quote from: "Uchiha Itachi"
djmtott: You used a direct quote and took parts out of it. That makes your credibility ZERO on any evidence you may bring forth. And the fact you didn't take the time to realize the article explains alot of that quote and how it happens.

For intance the "hostage" was only explained via 1 example of soldiers doing it once. Which had been banned under Isreali high law to be used. Or the fact that most Isreali civi kills were unintentional and cased by crossfire or simply "wrong place wrong time". While Palestian attacks where directed at civies.

I know nothing of this "extrajudicial executions" since this is a terrible evidence source. I doubt any of it is credible.
I said I was quoting my favorite parts of the report, and posted the link. It would be different if I posted the entire report without the link, and omitted some of the information.
Since I posted the link, the entirety of information is there for you to read.

Was the link not good enough? Should I have c&p'd the entire report?

Why would you say Amnesty International is a terrible source of information? It is their mandate to chronicle human rights violations. Even the US State Department annually gives less than flattering grades to Israel on their human rights practices.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #126 on: August 13, 2006, 01:52:51 AM »
Quote from: "djmtott"
Quote from: "Qulevra"
http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=1479

plus, consider googling whatever you haven't. it'll give you a lot of insight on what's really going on. Black September in Jordan and civil war in Lebanon are only the tip of the iceberg.
Your link is purely an OpEd article and shouldn't be used as fact.
When a news article uses the words, whine, gripe and cowardice, you know it's not fact-driven journalism.

As far as Black September and the civil war in Lebanon, I am not in disagreement that there are many militant factions in the Middle East region, and none of them should be considered saints.

My opinion is geared more towards the Israeli/Palestinian dynamic, and even though that is in play to an extent, I believe it is outside the scope of this thread, so I won't comment further on that.


dude, you keep talking in general terms. that's extremely bad taste.

what are the "factions" you're talking about ? did you even bother look for anything ? here, tell me something : if the same "faction", as you put it, is directly associated with a National Liberation Movement, yet still attempts 2 (two) coupes in less than 10 years, in 2 different countries, whose population is of the same ethnical group, what do you call it ? here's something else for ya - the same "faction" repeatedly attacks sovereign nation's civilian population. sounds familiar ?

p.s. Uchiha Itachi was more attentive than i, cudos to him. one thing i have to say to you - if this is the discussion level you pursure, you can sure as hell count me out of it. i don't trade in falsifications.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #127 on: August 13, 2006, 01:53:37 AM »
-double-
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2006, 02:01:02 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
dude, you keep talking in general terms. that's extremely bad taste.
This is an overall issue, of course things will be in general terms. When I need to point to something specific then I will do as such.

Quote from: "Qulevra"
what are the "factions" you're talking about ?
Hamas, PLO, Hezzbollah, al-Qaeda, PLO, etc... all of which are 'terrorists', which in itself is a term that is a whole debate unto itself.

Quote from: "Qulevra"
p.s. Uchiha Itachi was more attentive than i, cudos to him. one thing i have to say to you - if this is the discussion level you pursure, you can sure as hell count me out of it. i don't trade in falsifications.
I never falsified anything. I didn't change any information, and I clearly stated I was quoting parts of the report and not the entire report.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2006, 02:12:05 AM »
dude, i repeat my last - we either speak straight business or we don't speak at all. all this skillfull verbal zigzaging either means you hold everyone here for complete fools, or you don't really have anything to say.

you made a falsification by carefully quoting the convenient parts, while blurring the remaining picture. telling half truth - even though throwing a hint 'bout "look up the rest yourself" - means you either didn't read the article, or you hope the rest won't.

_bad_taste_ :twisted:

p.s. didn't i say it already...?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2006, 02:24:41 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
you made a falsification by carefully quoting the convenient parts, while blurring the remaining picture. telling half truth - even though throwing a hint 'bout "look up the rest yourself" - means you either didn't read the article, or you hope the rest won't.

_bad_taste_ :twisted:

p.s. didn't i say it already...?
Carefully quoting? I took two paragraphs from the beginning of the report that cited human rights violations on the part of the Israeli military. The only portions I omitted were lines at the end of a paragraph citing simillar infractions by Palestinians. The report chronicles infractions by both parties in the conflict, and since I wasn't discussing infractions on the part of the Palestinians I had no reason to qoute those parts.

Now since my point, and my angle of this discussion, were aimed at the Israeli military, I only posted words aimed at the Israeli military.

You seem very quick to discount anything I say based on a small detail that you find questionable, but that's to be expected. I have no problem with you trying to find a good exit strategy for this discussion, but to wrongly accuse me of being misleading IS in poor taste.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #131 on: August 13, 2006, 02:27:31 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
dude, i repeat my last - we either speak straight business or we don't speak at all. all this skillfull verbal zigzaging either means you hold everyone here for complete fools, or you don't really have anything to say.

What I have to say is my opinion, and I've done that. I haven't been trying to sway anyone else on the matter.

Skillful verbal zigzagging? I appreciate the comment of my 'verbal' skills.

I don't really know too many people on this board, and of those I've dealt with I think are great people. So no, I don't think everyone here is a fool.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline Qulevra

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« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2006, 02:48:29 AM »
this is getting better and better :D first, you start by shifting the focus from a historical overview to something more "popular" (see previous page). then, you make a loud statement about how you'd like the conflict to end (read: by leveling Israel with Syrian/Iranian tanks). you keep it on with ripped-off "favorite" quotes from an unreliable organization's article - which, by the way, was caught more than once on false and fabricated reports (see Guatanamo Bay, Zimbabwe, S. Africa, Israel etc). still, when asked a direct question, you just ignore it.

the difference between you and me is, that i WAS there and i've SEEN what's going on. both as a civilian and as a sodier. you however, are a great web phylosopher. if it all offends you so much, why not joining the ranks ? here, CPT's activists lost heads in Iraq - maybe they tried to preach the Hajis 'bout human rights too ? they sure can use a guy like you. tickets are on them, i'm sure coffin is too...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Qulevra »
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Offline djmtott

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« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2006, 03:04:53 AM »
Quote from: "Qulevra"
this is getting better and better :D first, you start by shifting the focus from a historical overview to something more "popular" (see previous page). then, you make a loud statement about how you'd like the conflict to end (read: by leveling Israel with Syrian/Iranian tanks). you keep it on with ripped-off "favorite" quotes from an unreliable organization's article - which, by the way, was caught more than once on false and fabricated reports (see Guatanamo Bay, Zimbabwe, S. Africa, Israel etc). still, when asked a direct question, you just ignore it.

the difference between you and me is, that i WAS there and i've SEEN what's going on. both as a civilian and as a sodier. you however, are a great web phylosopher. if it all offends you so much, why not joining the ranks ? here, CPT's activists lost heads in Iraq - maybe they tried to preach the Hajis 'bout human rights too ? they sure can use a guy like you. tickets are on them, i'm sure coffin is too...
I posted my opinion, and your rebuttal sent me on shifting subjects.

I do admit that I haven't been there, the closest I've been is Cairo and Izmir.

And for the record, I'm not offended. I just feel that if Israel was out of the picture, US presense in the region was removed, then the USA as a whole would be safer, and that's why my opinion stands as it does.

Just because you haven't seen something does not means it's not going on. Crimes are being perpetrated by American military personnel in Iraq in isolated incidents, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the almost 200k personnel in the area have seen them or have direct knowledge that those events are taking place.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by djmtott »
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Offline sNiPeRWoLf88

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« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2006, 03:21:23 AM »
Will someone please put an end to this sniveling?  It's worse that watching little children.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by sNiPeRWoLf88 »
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