What did we learn Nov 18th & 19th?

[War savage]

So fellas what did we learn from this last game November 18th and 19th in Tucson??? Me? I think most Phoenix players already know. Maybe a few Tucsonans.

[LOKI]

Last I read there was 29 green and 19 tan, so thanks to who changed last min. Rosters are there for a reason, lets use them.

Yea i learned A LOT of people need to get their crap together. To much down time. I went to fight, others went to sit and talk. Green put together our own little mini war cuzz we got tired of sittin. I learned that SCUM is a one hell of fire team. (ok i already knew that). But words of wisdom for next time EVERYONE BE READY TO FIGHT. Its called war for a reason, not kickback time.

[Vince]

Well, there's a lot of factors in that.

Despite the attempts of the organizer (a good guy -- on Saturday..you know, when he was there.) this game was about as organized as the ATF.

Also, a few bad apples in the bunch spoiled the first games -- I understand that playing with your friends is fun, but, there were people in full tan on the green team and people in full green on the tan team. If you want to play with your friends, wear the right clothing. I got killed during the second game by a guy in tan who -MAD- SARGE and I had already seen. We were on tan! Play the cards you're dealt.

Turn out was pretty good, except, I've lost faith in the majority of Tucson in regards to airsoft. Nobody from green showed up. This game was like, 15 miles from Tucson and like 90 miles from my house. I still made it out. So did all my friends.

Some safety concerns -- a guy wearing prescription glasses managed to get one of the lenses blown out but continued to wear them the next day, some hot guns, but that was pretty good.

Gameplay not so good. Confusing first scenario that started ultra late (we woke up at 7:15, we were playing at....10:30?) The presence of organization was just not there. LOKI, you're talkin about down time, well, everybody in my group and most of the people at my camp were pretty spun up and generally ready to go. No schedule was posted in advance which was an ill omen, but I was hoping something was drawn up. Also, you're talking about blaming ourselves for the lack of leadership, so on and so forth -- I wasn't confused about anything, but I was mad. The only reason the game wasn't a total abortion is because Airsofter1 organized the final game on Saturday and the game on Sunday. It was Woody's idea for a group of tan guys to wear t-shirts or different tops and play on the green team. There would have been no further games had it not been for their ideas and contributions, so, I dunno what you're talkin' about.

Very one-sided, airsoft in this state is. I see Phoenix people going to Tucson games but seldom ever the other way around. Can't say I'm surprised, most of you guys can't even make it out to games in Tucson. Thanks to those who did though.

There were good points, though.

I got to meet a couple people I hadn't before and that was good and the camping among friends was fantastic. As a camping trip, this is the best camping trip I have ever been on. As an airsoft game, this is, bar none, the worst one I've ever been to. Airsofter1 really salvaged the game. The last scenario on Saturday was passable and Sunday was pretty good, but the problems in the beginning (rough is an understatement) and just lack of turnout on Tucson's part (especially those who committed -- shame on you, flaking on an airsoft game is the worst, lowest thing you can possible do, you're really ruining everyone's fun when you do this) were enough to sour the weekend and get people in crummy spirits.

In conclusion, we learned :

* An average fire pit needs 32 beer bottles, spread out equidistant from each other to be completely encircled.

* Denny's on Broadway and Priest is awful. Terrible. Can't go there again.

* If you burn logs with termites in them, it smells like shit.

* $1.99 krill lamps from Wal-Mart = late night fun.

[LOKI]

Well Vince im in no way blaming one person its a lil of everyone. I got bored... did you? I didnt say "LACK OF LEADERSHIP" it was more along the lines of lack of comunication. I personally heard someone on tan over the radio that tan was "not ready" after a 45 min break ( not  for lunch). I got there at 9- 930 and walked through tan camp yes some people sittin there ( ready or not dunno) and others still puttin on tac. gear. I really dont think theres anyone person blame for lack of missions because really...... would it have been fair? 30 on 10. no. Senarios woundnt have worked anyway. look back at the roster what was the last head count per color? We (SCUM) took our shirts off or put on dark civ. clothes to "try" and even it up. I see this as just a round up of guys that want to play. who shows...shows. And yes you are 100% right about Tucsons turn to play. Pretty bad i know.

[aztacgunfighter]

I will take the hit on every bad thing that went down.

You all can take credit for all the good that went down, that fact that Tucson was weak should not have been a surprise to any one, I have stated if before.

As to game play, all it was about was shooting people. Did'nt you get to do that?

Was there any other game any one eles had planned, what else would you have been doing , the lawn care? And for the few that SALVAGED  the game good, too bad no ideas from any one came in BEFORE the op. I will script it out next time. LIKE A MIL OP, DOWN TO EVERY DETAIL EVERY SCENARIO, NO ALLOWANCES FOR WHAT PLAYERS WANT FROM THE GAME

Colors: Why you have the best gear around but only one set of camies is well beyound me, you may have a  $700 dollar gun and you can't buy another set of camies to be more adaptable to your situation, shame on you.

Oh AND when did you ever go to combat where there wasn't any fog of war, or great com, or plans worked after the first bullets started to fly.  IT'S CALLED COMBAT MIL SIM, NOT LIVE INTERACTIVE VIDEO GAMES!

[Vince]

I misunderstood you a little then,  Loki. It's cool, I know what you mean.

aztacgunfighter -- it's not a knock against you, except for the part about you not showing up today, that kind of sucked. A tighter rein is necessary, it would be good if it is scripted out, down to every detail, with every scenario having no allowances. That's what organizing a game is This started out being only slightly your fault (but not through malicious intent, just the way it happened) as the organizer, to being people who did not show up's fault. The reason that so many who went felt things did not go well is because there was a certain presentation made by this game. That there were planned scenarios, not just a pickup game. Pickup games are fun, but, I don't fancy driving 180 miles when we could have driven about 50 miles and had the same thing with less confusion and less heartache. You ask what we would have done had we not gone to this game and the answer is simple -- planned our own How do you think we've been gettin along all this time?

I don't understand the colors issue either, you can get a set of BDUs for like, $20-30.  If you sit by a particularly busy interstate offramp with a witty sign, like, "Seeking Ride to San Francisco or Young Male Travel Companion" you can probably make enough in one or two days to buy some. Or, just, uh, save $20 from your job.

Regarding your last comment -- most games I go to, there is pretty great communication and plans usually work. Games start on time and people are on the teams they say they're going to be, and by and large, people show up. Really, again, not your fault, this was outside your control, which is why I didn't say, "Well, the organizer was awful. Really, just awful. The game sucking was his fault completely. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong.", so, relax. Not about you.

[KOBO]

For all that reads this, please do not sign up for an Op and then not show up. I know shit happens and life can get in the way, but damn, on the roster Green out numbered Tan then tan has a 5 to 1 ratio at the game???

Do not sign up for ops if you are not going to go.

If you sign up and can not go, let the organizer know so the roster can be edited.

[Fish]

Sorry I did not make it. I was planning to for a long time. And last minute my ride was canceled and it was too late to arrange a car pool. I will make it next time and I will bring at least 3 guys, on green. I promise.

[woody]

Near as I could tell a core issue was the physical separation of green and tan. That's very unusual and left us fumbling to get people all in one place so we could sort out the headcount and get going. I didn't pay that much attention to all the comm leading up to the game but usually we have one location we all gather at, discuss the scenario. arrange for props and stuff to be set out and if necessary even out the teams. We spent a lot of time Saturday morning just trying to find each other. So no pointing of fingers, just next time let's all meet at one place.

[aztacgunfighter]

PLEASE TO EVERY ONE I DON'T MIND THE CRITIQUE! it is the only way to know want every one wants. I had several ops planned, but without more Tucson support those plans went bad fast.


I don't take anything anyone says as a slam.

I have helped plan and run real MIL exercises with real grunts while in the S3 office of 2/7 1st Mar Div, those had to be run time and time again. It is called training for a reason.  I just didn't want to treat you all like boot recruits giving orders and demands or commands as to how you want to fight your own war.

What can people expect, some of us have never talked to each other, never trained with each, never express what they would like to see on the battle field ........and then everthing is supposed to work with stop watch  precision the very first time? Please.

I was there this morning, in and out and played acouple games, the last one accross the river run was still the best and we had the most fun, oh that was a pick up game we all put together together on the spot, no one complained, ask Spaz if you went home early how it went.

pictures are cool though.

As to the game comment, I did not say AIRSOFT GAMES I said COMBAT OR COMBAT TRAINING, I will still take the hit for not prepping each and every person down to the last detail next time we can overwhelm you with a ton of  intel before the next game so you can make a better decision as to ever come down  or not again.

Still thanks to everyone that spent money for gas to come down .

[-MAD- SARGE]

Well I just want to say that I loved the creek area.  Very different change of pace from what I have been doing. Very nice field with a good change of terrain and concealment.

[War savage]

Ok...I'll speak my mind.

-I learned that Tucson Airsofters are softcore, or at least the ones that didn't show. Kudos for the ones that did.

-I learned (actually confirmed) that if you want to organize a good game, go to a couple AA games first.

-I learned Reaver was a bad a$$ in the Navy.

-I learned ring of death or inner circle will always break down at some point in time.

-I learned -MAD SARGE- should be in a bubble.

-I learned Airsofter 1 can turn chicken shit into chicken salad.
Thanks Mikey for the leadership. Now I know why your our LT at major Ops.

[LOKI]

I think its funny thats everyone has something to say now then suggest it in the field. But i agree Tucsons head count was weak, but in earlier post azgunfighter asked if ANYONE had ideas for senarios and no one had shyt to say then. think im lying look! Its all good though to the phx guys that drove down thank you, you guys made team SCUM's day, if you liked the opsite, etc. see ya soon. to guys that didnt have "fun" no love lost. And i dont know who posted "WHY TUCSON DOESNT TO PHX GAMES?" Post it on TAC so we know, not everyone in tucson goes on AA because this site does act screwy sometimes and wont let us on. Tell where and when and hope its not a paintball field cuzz we dont pay to play.  let us know.

[Kurn]

Tell where and when and hope its not a paintball field cuzz we dont pay to play

I think there has been exactly one AA game at a paintball field.

[-MAD- SARGE]

There was at least two if not Three at a paintball field for AA games. Used it due to the buildings inorder to change things up from the norm.

Im not defending anyone, just how I feel.  When Im at someones event Im not going to tell them how to do it while it is running. That is for them to do how they want to do it.  After its done if I see things that could be improved and I want to help the guy by giving him some good feedback I will. But not during the event. Once in a while I will give a small recommendation here or there but that is like throwing a twig on the fire. Dont get anyone wrong here, Id say we all had fun and by learning from things here the next event will be even that much better