Shotgun strictly for home defense

[deathbydanish]

Well if you guys were wondering why I didn't show up to the BAS game this morning, it was because someone broke into my car and left glass all over the place. I spent the whole morning filing a police report, scheduling an appointment to have the glass replaced, and calling my insurance company to file a claim. Not to mention having to patch the window with tape and cardboard, then cleaning out the glass all over the upholstery.

Apparently last night there was a fireworks show, and it was setting off everyone's alarm. I went to bed early that night and was deep asleep by the time the fireworks were going off. I figure that's when the assholes decided to hit my car. I also noticed that they did the same thing to one of my neighbor's cars, except they took out a bigger window. (Mine was the triangle shaped piece on the rear passenger side door). Supposedly the complex has a security guard patrolling at night, but apparently he seemed to miss the fact that multiple cars got broken into that night. I was already burned once by them when they busted a bunch of kids smoking pot in their apartment, however, the guy didn't put down the apartment number when he was filling out his report and noticed it at the end of his shift. He tried to remember which one it was, but ultimately just ended up guessing and he guessed my apartment number. Long story short, I spent a month fighting the management people until they finally got the security guard in to verify which apartment he had actually busted.

Needless to say I am not going to entrust my security to a bunch of incompetent, shithead rentacops who wouldn't give a rat's ass about the people they're paid to protect.

This neighborhood in general seems to be going to hell in a hand basket, since I see/hear the police choppers hovering more times this year than I have in previous years.

I was thinking about a Mossberg 590, but I will defer to this board's expertise on what kind of shotgun I should use for home defense.

[Doc Hollywood]

Rocksalt rounds are pretty nice....  that will be one hell of a story at Tent City...

[Ganef]

Rem 870 would be a nice shotty to have, but I don't think that would fix your problem. Don't keep steal-able stuff in your car and they wont break into it.

[deathbydanish]

Rem 870 would be a nice shotty to have, but I don't think that would fix your problem. Don't keep steal-able stuff in your car and they wont break into it.

I don't, all I had were some old google map printouts to AOs and a big map I got from State Farm. If I have to keep anything valuable in the car, I keep it hidden or locked in the trunk.

This neighborhood is just getting shitty and the rentacops can't do a thing about it. I don't think it would be at all in my best interest to let them "guard" us, if you can even call it that.

Edit: Nothing was stolen, there was nothing to steal, I didn't even load my gear into the backseat because I just came home from work too tired. I'm still mad that this happened though, first my bike gets stolen and now my car gets broken into, I don't think it is at all responsible for me to leave my security and welfare in the hands of these half assed rentacops.

[VanillaGuerrilla]

You can find a Remington 870, Mossberg 500 & 590 and a few other reliable shotties for under $300. For example, the Mossberg 500a "persuader" usually goes for around $250 (at wal-mart, randalls guns, lone wolf guns, etc). It has a 7-8 shell capacity and can handle 3" magnum loads. If you can afford more, I would recommend a beretta 391 semi-auto or almost any Benelli.

[azsarge]

I'll echo what Ganef said by recommending an 870.

It's THE shotgun.

I steer clear of Mossbergs because of past QC issues and the fact that they are apparently more difficult (read: Pain in the ASS!) to take down and maintain.

I'm not the type of guy that does stuff because "I read it on the internet" or "so and so said they're gay" but when it comes to guns, I pay attention to guys who know what they're talking about.  The combination of said folks telling me Mossbergs were pieces of shit, and my own personal experiences (quite sterling, I might add) with the 870 lead me to buy one for my own use.

Regardless of whether or not you're going to add accessories, rest assured that any accessory that is made for shotguns is made for the 870.  Mossberg isn't far behind, but behind it is.

If you can find one, a "Remington 870 Home Defense" get's my vote.  It'll run you around 350 locally, but has some extra features that make it a better value than the standard 870 Express.  It includes a mag extension that brings capacity (with 2 3/4" shells) up to 7+1 and has synthetic furniture.

It's capable of firing 3" Magnum loads, however unpleasant they may be, and has unfalteringly fired any loads I can get my hands on so far.

For your home, I'd recommend a light of some sort, whatever you feel comfortable with, just keep in mind that you can't hit something if you can't see it.

I'll defer any legal speak to our resident lawyers to discuss ad nauseum, but I'm pretty sure you can't shoot some dude in the parking lot for breaking into your car in an apt complex.  

One more thing, Benellis are nice, but semi-auto shotguns severly limit the loads that can be cycled.  870 Pump action never fails.

[deathbydanish]

I'll echo what Ganef said by recommending an 870.

It's THE shotgun.

I steer clear of Mossbergs because of past QC issues and the fact that they are apparently more difficult (read: Pain in the ASS!) to take down and maintain.

I'm not the type of guy that does stuff because "I read it on the internet" or "so and so said they're gay" but when it comes to guns, I pay attention to guys who know what they're talking about.  The combination of said folks telling me Mossbergs were pieces of s***, and my own personal experiences (quite sterling, I might add) with the 870 lead me to buy one for my own use.

Regardless of whether or not you're going to add accessories, rest assured that any accessory that is made for shotguns is made for the 870.  Mossberg isn't far behind, but behind it is.

If you can find one, a "Remington 870 Home Defense" get's my vote.  It'll run you around 350 locally, but has some extra features that make it a better value than the standard 870 Express.  It includes a mag extension that brings capacity (with 2 3/4" shells) up to 7+1 and has synthetic furniture.

It's capable of firing 3" Magnum loads, however unpleasant they may be, and has unfalteringly fired any loads I can get my hands on so far.

For your home, I'd recommend a light of some sort, whatever you feel comfortable with, just keep in mind that you can't hit something if you can't see it.

I'll defer any legal speak to our resident lawyers to discuss ad nauseum, but I'm pretty sure you can't shoot some dude in the parking lot for breaking into your car in an apt complex.  

One more thing, Benellis are nice, but semi-auto shotguns severly limit the loads that can be cycled.  870 Pump action never fails.

I went to Shooter's World today they echo your sentiments as well about the Remington 870.

I just talked to one of my neighbors who's car also got broken into, the jerkoffs who did this thought he had a laptop in his case, but there was nothing but papers in it. So they left the case laying next to his car. These guys are either stupid burglars or desperate crackheads, they were many more better targets surrounding us, I think we were just unfortunate enough to have been picked.

Anyway I did pick up a Surefire G2 LED flashlight, so at the very least I have a better chance of maybe spotting the guys if I can catch them in the act again. I am rather iffy on whether or not I can use the shotgun out in the parking lot, but I still would rather not leave it up to chance. Hopefully I could just get away with using the racking noise as a deterrent, but still this neighborhood doesn't appear to be getting any better and if it came down to a him or me situation, I'll do everything I can to make sure its him who goes down.

[Doc Hollywood]

Not to rain on your parade but IF you did any of the following you would most likely be charged with the crime indicated:

Point the shotgun at someone breaking into your car - Agg Assault (Probably undesignated)

Rack the slide - Agg Assault Count II (Now a felony)

Fire the shotgun - Agg Assault Count III and possible attempted homicide. (Definate felony)

Kill the guy breaking into your car - Murder.

You cannot use deadly force to protect property (you car and its contents) in Arizona.  

You can use non-deadly force to prevent most crimes.

You can use deadly force  to prevent the following crimes if it is immediately necessary to prevent or stop : (1) murder, (2) burglary of a home or armed burglary of another premises, (3) sexual assault, (4) armed robbery,(5) kidnapping, (6) child molestation, (7) arson of an occupied struc-ture and ( assault involving deadly force.

The only time you can use deadly force to protect a car is if the car is occupied (by a person).

Its a grey area if you go outside with your shotgun and the bad guy points a gun at you - whether or not you shooting him was reasonable self defense will be decided by 12 people most likely.

[deathbydanish]

Not to rain on your parade but IF you did any of the following you would most likely be charged with the crime indicated:

Point the shotgun at someone breaking into your car - Agg Assault (Probably undesignated)

Rack the slide - Agg Assault Count II (Now a felony)

Fire the shotgun - Agg Assault Count III and possible attempted homicide. (Definate felony)

Kill the guy breaking into your car - Murder.

You cannot use deadly force to protect property (you car and its contents) in Arizona.  

You can use non-deadly force to prevent most crimes.

You can use deadly force  to prevent the following crimes if it is immediately necessary to prevent or stop : (1) murder, (2) burglary of a home or armed burglary of another premises, (3) sexual assault, (4) armed robbery,(5) kidnapping, (6) child molestation, (7) arson of an occupied struc-ture and ( assault involving deadly force.

The only time you can use deadly force to protect a car is if the car is occupied (by a person).

Its a grey area if you go outside with your shotgun and the bad guy points a gun at you - whether or not you shooting him was reasonable self defense will be decided by 12 people most likely.

So what are my choices? I mean I could probably pay extra for a garage, but then what happens when they get more desperate and think the stuff in my apartment maybe worth a lot too?

I'm just sick of all this bullshit where I have to worry about my stuff getting stolen, I've been working too hard to tolerate any of this crap for much longer. Its not right, I work hard, I pay my taxes, and I obey the law, but social parasites like the punks who broke into my car get away scott free.

[Doc Hollywood]

Well if your garage is attached to your house then when they break in its burglary and you can shoot.  Same thing if they break into your house.

It sounds like the work of stupid kids - any self respecting thief would not risk a car breaking unless there was a clear prize to be had.  Stupid kids however will break windows just to break windows.

Have good insurance and faith in karma - I promise they wont get away with it.  Maybe you wont ever know about them getting assfucked in prison by Bubba but that, or some other worthy fate, will find them.

If your 'hood is particularly succeptible organize a neighborhood watch system, have neighbors call requesting additional patrols from the REAL LEO's and try to get the rent a cops fired - its probably an HOA that pays them and there is always a vote to be had.

I feel your anger brother, believe me - and I'm armed 24/7 but we have to be responsible in exercising our rights to carry and use deadly force.  

On a side note, Tasers are not considered deadly force - and you can cook the fucknuts pretty much with impunity if you can get within the 25 foot kill zone.  Its fun to watch them pantsshit themselves and puke up all over after the 4th trigger pull....      :-$

Keep the faith and if all else fails move out to the Westside .... our local criminals dont tolerate that kind of shit on their streets!

Not to rain on your parade but IF you did any of the following you would most likely be charged with the crime indicated:

Point the shotgun at someone breaking into your car - Agg Assault (Probably undesignated)

Rack the slide - Agg Assault Count II (Now a felony)

Fire the shotgun - Agg Assault Count III and possible attempted homicide. (Definate felony)

Kill the guy breaking into your car - Murder.

You cannot use deadly force to protect property (you car and its contents) in Arizona.  

You can use non-deadly force to prevent most crimes.

You can use deadly force  to prevent the following crimes if it is immediately necessary to prevent or stop : (1) murder, (2) burglary of a home or armed burglary of another premises, (3) sexual assault, (4) armed robbery,(5) kidnapping, (6) child molestation, (7) arson of an occupied struc-ture and ( assault involving deadly force.

The only time you can use deadly force to protect a car is if the car is occupied (by a person).

Its a grey area if you go outside with your shotgun and the bad guy points a gun at you - whether or not you shooting him was reasonable self defense will be decided by 12 people most likely.

So what are my choices? I mean I could probably pay extra for a garage, but then what happens when they get more desperate and think the stuff in my apartment maybe worth a lot too?

I'm just sick of all this bullshit where I have to worry about my stuff getting stolen, I've been working too hard to tolerate any of this crap for much longer. Its not right, I work hard, I pay my taxes, and I obey the law, but social parasites like the punks who broke into my car get away scott free.

[deathbydanish]

I did see tasers for sale at Shooter's World, I think I'll do a double take on their selection. In all honesty I'm still mad, but I don't know how I'd react if I had caught them in the act and I had a shotgun. I'm afraid I might mess up my life or they might end mine.

I just found out that the rentacops don't patrol past midnight, so that means pretty much anything goes as soon as they leave. Apparently no one told them that criminals don't work shifts, they are out all night.

Thanks again for the taser recommendation.

[XavierMace]

Don't keep steal-able stuff in your car and they wont break into it.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but that still isn't a guarantee.  My friend has a POS '95 Dodge Neon with faded paint, no hubcaps, no stereo, and it still got broken into.  He came out to find a window broken and the contents of the glove box strewn all over.  Nothing was missing, since there was nothing to steal.  But the obvious (poor) condition of the car and the clearly missing stereo didn't seem to deter them.  He lives in an apartment complex and car break-ins are pretty common there.  I don't know if some people do it because they are bored or what...

Anyways, if this is a common occurrence, I would have to vote for considering a different neighborhood.

[deathbydanish]

Don't keep steal-able stuff in your car and they wont break into it.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but that still isn't a guarantee.  My friend has a POS '95 Dodge Neon with faded paint, no hubcaps, no stereo, and it still got broken into.  He came out to find a window broken and the contents of the glove box strewn all over.  Nothing was missing, since there was nothing to steal.  But the obvious (poor) condition of the car and the clearly missing stereo didn't seem to deter them.  He lives in an apartment complex and car break-ins are pretty common there.  I don't know if some people do it because they are bored or what...

Anyways, if this is a common occurrence, I would have to vote for considering a different neighborhood.

I know, but apparently the one I'm in is the best in terms of security for this immediate area. I am probably going to just pay extra and get a garage, but still, what happens when they get more desperate and think I have something more valuable in my apartment. Unlike the newer units in my complex, mine didn't come with a honeywell security system, and the fact that I'm a deep sleeper probably doesn't bode well for me if someone decides to break in.

[oldgamefreak]

(7) arson of an occupied struc-ture.

Throw gas on the gar and light it. Tell the cops they were trying to burn down the building by burning the cars. By the time they put it out hopefully all the buck shot that you put into there knees (so they couldent get out of the car) will have melted.  :mrgreen:

[Giland]

Some folks don't like 870s because of the safety and where it is located (trigger guard). I believe the Mossberg safety is a switch on the back of the gun where your finger can engage and disengage it easily.
I don't like Mossbergs due to my uncle buying one, and the first time we used it, having to drop a weight down the barrel to get the hull to extract. Partly his fault for not wire brushing the chamber prior to using it, but soured me to them anyways. He still swears by them and all his sons shoot them.
I have used 870s for almost 25 years with no issues.