Author Topic: Hey guys. I need some advice  (Read 1556 times)

Offline Ziolko

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sergeant First Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 326
    • View Profile
Hey guys. I need some advice
« on: August 21, 2008, 08:31:51 PM »
I would like to buy a new gun. I wanted either a Sniper or a Mid- Long range AEG. NO CQB. I just wanted some oppinions of guns that i might want to take a look at. I was thinking about not doing the regular old M4 or M16 but you guys know more than me so ill take your word for it. I didnt want to spend more than $180. Thanks for reading.  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
V/R,
Ziolko

Offline I Slap Fat Kids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 11:12:54 PM »
If you are looking for a clone sniper, stay far away from the AGM L96...  Or if an enemy has one, just stay about 50 feet  away from them.

And,  you're welcome for reading twice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
Replicas:

TM P90 red dot
SRC G36K with a CA AG-36
JG G36C
TM Hi-Capa M.R.P.
KJW MK II
WE HK 416
WE Hi-Capa Dragon
And a few friends\':

Offline Whiskey11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 09:03:05 AM »
Quote from: "Ziolko"
I would like to buy a new gun. I wanted either a Sniper or a Mid- Long range AEG. NO CQB. I just wanted some oppinions of guns that i might want to take a look at. I was thinking about not doing the regular old M4 or M16 but you guys know more than me so ill take your word for it. I didnt want to spend more than $180. Thanks for reading.  :D

I had great luck with my original CM028 (CYMA AK47).  The new CM028's like at Airsoft GI shoot harder and more accurately and are the same price and just as reliable.  Mine got beat to snot as a rental every weekend at Embry Riddle for an entire semester and was still going strong when I sold it.  It was very accurate.  Being the second CYMA AEG I've owned they both have exceeded my expectations and were both sub 100$.  Having said that I highly recommend you save up and get a CA, ICS, G&P, G&G, TM, What have you AEG that isnt a clone as they will ultimately, last you longer.

For sniper rifles... well lets put it this way, if your on a budget, then sniping IS NOT for you.  If you only have 180$ look into getting an AEG because sniping is not cheap and thinking so is absolute suicide.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ziolko

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sergeant First Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 326
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 05:20:48 PM »
I appreciate your guys words of advice but could you maybe be more specific. Maybe provide a link or something? Thank you  =]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
V/R,
Ziolko

Offline Ares

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/gtm2000
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 11:09:38 PM »
Quote
Having said that I highly recommend you save up and get a CA, ICS, G&P, G&G, TM, What have you AEG that isnt a clone as they will ultimately, last you longer.

THANK YOU!!!

finally i hear it from someone else.

dude...take your 180, put it aside, save up another 200 and buy something really nice for yourself. I HIGHLY recommend G&P. They feel the best. The finish is better, and they're built better than CA (slimmer mod-stocks, nicer accessories etc.) yeah...they're  on the pricey end of AEG's but its SO worth it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2008, 09:49:13 AM »
Ares they are?  I can buy a G&P standard M16VN or M4A1 for 290 MAX shipped from HK....  Thats the same price as a good number of CA AEG's and the quality is MUCH better.

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductd ... uctID=1905

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductd ... uctID=1994

http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewproductd ... uctID=1969

Or if you want a really killer deal for $318 or $308 you can pick up an ICS AEG, with battery + charger, 2 hicaps and a few BB's from Blazingtoys (great place, love em!) not to mention free shipping (The extra 3 dollars in what I said is for their handleing fee's)

http://www.blazingtoys.com/products/bteroa001.html

http://www.blazingtoys.com/products/bteroa005.html

While it certainly isnt G&P external quality, ICS Product is rock solid and on the spot with the latest versions (starting in 2006 lol) These guns perform great and have alot of features that make them worth just a tad more over a G&P in my oppinion.  Having owned both, I loved both to death but the ICS will always have a spot in my arsenal.  Mainly because Vince hates getting shot by it :D  I miss the good ole days.  Vince when are you going to come to NE so I can shoot you again? :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ares

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/gtm2000
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2008, 11:27:44 AM »
Spot on with what? Any given ICS feels like a toy as opposed to a weapon, and only performs equal to the all plastic Tokyo Marui. The only ICS i have been mildly impressed with is the MP5.

Out of the box, the average G&P is shooting at around 330-350, whereas an ICS will fire at around 275-300 even. Both velocities are modest, and will give you all that you need in a game, but obviously the G&P is geared just a little higher. Put .25's in each weapon, and the numbers drop in both weapons, yet fire longer and straighter of course.

**Don't pay attention to any brand that claims 400+ FPS out of the box for a shockingly low price. It will only bring you hardship, pain, blood sweat and tears and blah blah blah.**

My point is that ICS is too high priced for too little punch. For example, aside for they all feel like crap, most ICS gearbox assemblies are designed with 6mm bushings (and if my memory serves me correctly, they still use the proprietary split gearbox design, an esoteric format which never became the primary pick of airsofters, and for a reason).

Some CA and most all G&P gearboxes are made with 7mm bushings, this keeps the weapons running smoother, and allows them to safely run with higher figures. This is because the larger bushings are absorbing the shock over a larger area. It's science.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2008, 04:49:16 PM »
Quote from: "Ares"
Spot on with what? Any given ICS feels like a toy as opposed to a weapon, and only performs equal to the all plastic Tokyo Marui. The only ICS i have been mildly impressed with is the MP5.

Thats a personal observation.  The metal bodies are nice, similiar in materials used as the G&P's are.  I agree with the plastic feeling like crap.  A simple fix is to buy a set of CA or G&P grips.  After that they feel alot less toy like.  Having shot a real M16 multiple times neither the G&P nor the ICS, nor any airsoft replica I've seen even comes close and all fall under the "feels like a toy" category.  G&P's are nice but are still far off in terms of comparing it to actual firearms.

Quote from: "Ares"
Out of the box, the average G&P is shooting at around 330-350, whereas an ICS will fire at around 275-300 even. Both velocities are modest, and will give you all that you need in a game, but obviously the G&P is geared just a little higher. Put .25's in each weapon, and the numbers drop in both weapons, yet fire longer and straighter of course.

What screwed up world did you get your info on ICS guns?  They chrono between 320-340 fps w/ .20's.  Not even close to your 275-300.  The hop up unit is still far supperior to the G&P design.  Besides what difference does stock performance make when most people upgrade theirs out of the box when they want a serious airsoft replica anyways?  Taking a look at the upgradeability factor next.

Quote from: "Ares"
My point is that ICS is too high priced for too little punch. For example, aside for they all feel like crap, most ICS gearbox assemblies are designed with 6mm bushings (and if my memory serves me correctly, they still use the proprietary split gearbox design, an esoteric format which never became the primary pick of airsofters, and for a reason).

The difference between a 6mm Bushing and a 7mm bearing is minimal.  Maybe 1 round per second.  The bearings dont make that much of a difference.  Lots of tests have been done on this.  Besides that a Bushing will last longer under higher FPS set ups then a Bearing will and you dont have to worry about uneven stresses caused by stain on the bearing.  Bearings will wear out much quicker than a bushing will.  I dont see how this is a point worth mentioning.

The ICS Split gearbox design IS supperior to a standard V2 gearbox.  If it's that big of a deal you CAN fit a standard V2 gearbox in an ICS body but I'd have to ask why?  The standard V2 gearbox is natorious for failure at the cylinder window.  Something an ICS Gearbox only suffers from with extreme fps set ups and cold weather (like M140 and 32 degrees outside)  something very few people would play in anyways.  I understand a lot of 'zonies have a bad taste in their mouth from ICS but times have changed drastically and they have come full circle since 2006.  A lot of people mentioned problems with the gearboxes coming apart during operation and this was fixed before the 2006 versions came out.  Alot of people complained about proprietary gearbox parts, another thing of the past.  The Turbo3000 motor uses a standard TM styled pinion gear and bevel gear meaning compatability with aftermarket gearsets.  The only proprietary part in an ICS gearbox now a days is the gearbox shell and the ARL.  Two components that rarely if ever fail.  

Anyway you look at it it will still be better than a TM and a clone so a good recommendation none the less.  The price is comparable to the G&P's I linked to, but the deal is better because of the extra hicap and battery + charger combo for a beginning player.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ares

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/gtm2000
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2008, 09:35:57 PM »
Wow man. didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Only meant to give this kid another perspective. Don't you like knowing several different perspectives on different systems from a lot of people? I know that helped me along a lot in my time with the sport.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline XavierMace

  • Site Admin
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2906
    • View Profile
    • http://www.xaviermace.com
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2008, 09:49:26 PM »
Just to backup what Whiskey11 said, the ICS pistol chrono's at 305-320 because of it's 186mm inner barrel.  Every full M4 length ICS I've chrono'd recently was right at 330-350fps.  The Anniversary models are around 380-410 unless you got it from Evike.  I haven't seen a stock ICS firing under 300 since 2005.  I've yet to crack an ICS gearbox (running an SP150 spring in one of them right now) nor have I had an issue with the 6mm bushings.  Nylon or Steel ones.  I can't say the same for G&P gearboxes.

Quote
an esoteric format which never became the primary pick of airsofters, and for a reason).

In the US, that may be true.  But if you look, they are a lot more popular in the EU and Asia.  In fact AZ seems to have more hate for ICS than any other place in the US.

Quote
My point is that ICS is too high priced for too little punch.

The M4 pistol is $200, shipped.  A standard M4A1 is $290, shipped.  That seems pretty competitive to me.  What will $200 get you from G&P?  Not to mention why are you basing the gun on FPS?  Spend $10 and get whatever spring you want.  The ICS will run it no problem.

Quote
Some CA and most all G&P gearboxes are made with 7mm bushings, this keeps the weapons running smoother, and allows them to safely run with higher figures. This is because the larger bushings are absorbing the shock over a larger area. It's science.

That's only partially true.  If they are running bushings, that is theoretically true but marginally observable in reality.  But most are running 7mm bearings which will actually fail sooner than a 6mm bushing because the wall is too thin and will crack under the pressure.  Once again though, I've yet to have that happen with ICS bushings.  I've put my share of use through them.  I won't argue that the G&P externals have a better looking finish.  However, you aren't going to convince me their internals are superior.  I'll take a T3k motor over the G&P any day.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 10:12:54 PM »
Quote from: "Ares"
Wow man. didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Only meant to give this kid another perspective. Don't you like knowing several different perspectives on different systems from a lot of people? I know that helped me along a lot in my time with the sport.

Trust me I love a different perspective but when it's based off of old and outdated information and not clearly stated as such I get extremely agrivated.  It puts people off to what is otherwise a good company.  Keep in mind if I based all of my info off of early run CA models everyone would be jumping my ass for miss representing an acceptable AEG.  Times have changed, alot of people seem to forget that companies can make turn arounds which is Ironic from the CA toting crowd here in AZ.

Xavier is right as well, I think a lot of people here got screwed by Team SD in the early days of ICS guns (which a lot of crappy crappy models were sent here) when the split GB came out everyone went "awesome" then were disappointed when it failed to deliver the rest.  Currently (as in any ICS model post 2006, basically any with a black body) ICS M4's and M16's perform better than any M16 or M4 I've used to date in it's stock form, and that includes my G&P M16A4 and the CA M15A$ SPR I had.  (Not like out performing a CA was a problem, hell a SRC could do that).  Dont get me wrong the G&P is an impressive rifle, but it only reigns king in the externals department... nothing a set of 20$ used CA or G&P handguards cant fix on the ICS or better yet spending the extra to get the ICS with the rail unit on it (thats what I did) which is still cheaper than the G&P equivilant M4.  Not to mention the benifits for a starting player that includes a battery and an extra hicap and charger.  

On that note, buy what you want but save up and buy something from ICS, G&P, CA, G&G, TM, KWA, or STAR but avoid, if at all possible buying a Clone for your first gun.  It will make you appreciate (or hate) the cheaper guns because they are a great base for building a custom or if you are absolutely 100% unable to purchase a high end gun.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline driver5

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2008, 07:47:53 AM »
Save your money, and don't buy a screwball type of gun unless you really love it. Parts availability for v2 gearboxes, specifically m4's, is infinitely better than for aks, augs, m14s, etc. You can get parts for anything (except a famas) quite easily, but it might take a few days.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ColinBT1994

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Private First Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 07:25:32 AM »
Well if you're just getting into airsoft I'd say you could buy a clone gun from JG or DE. THey make clones of populars brands designs and sell them for cheaper (side affects vary). I currently have a clone of a G&G UMP made by Double Eagle. Now, I've used both brands so if you wanted to do that theres these:

JG VSR-10
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/AR-JG-VSR10-366.htm
Ive shot one of these before, and they are really nice. My friend who owns it has had no problems with it for the past year.

DE M4 RIS
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/ERM-DE-M88-M4-R.htm
This one looks pretty solid. I've never used it but if it's anything like my UMP it'll be more than you expected.


JG makes some AUGS but I wouldn't recommend them. Or ANY bullpup (mag goes in back) style gun for that matter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
    • View Profile
Re: Hey guys. I need some advice
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 07:56:05 AM »
Quote from: "driver5"
Save your money, and don't buy a screwball type of gun unless you really love it. Parts availability for v2 gearboxes, specifically m4's, is infinitely better than for aks, augs, m14s, etc. You can get parts for anything (except a famas) quite easily, but it might take a few days.

Not to contradict you or anything but the amount of ACCESSORIES available to an M4/M16 is about the only thing they have "more of."  Gearbox parts, for V3 guns (Ak's, Aug's, etc) are just as abundant as V2 parts.  You may not be able to buy them locally but online they are certainly just as common.  The M14 (TM) uses V7 parts which are not that uncommon either.  Granted not as common as a V2 or V3 gun but they are just as common and dont get me started on the standard parts using G&G/CA M14 who's only proprietary parts are the widely available Cylinder Head and tappet plate.........
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »