Author Topic: Airsoft Upgades ???  (Read 1295 times)

Offline BahaBill

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Airsoft Upgades ???
« on: January 24, 2010, 10:46:27 AM »
Ok New to airsoft here so please be kind.....
Bought a new Echo1 stag 15 m4 with metal body.
added a tracer unit to it and an auto mag.
Using a 9.4 v  and 1200mah battery.
Just bought a MadBull 6.03 tight bore barrel at 363 mm
Everything else is stock.
The performance bites!!!!!!!!
it is longer than the one from factory so I am actually thinking that there isnt enough volume being produced from the cyclinder assembly or something.It is longer by about 2 inch or so without taking it back out and measuring it..


My question is this......
What upgrades do I NEED to do to make it work better ?

AND
I see so many items for M4's but are they ALL compatable to each other ? (because of all the differ manufacturers )
Thanks alot
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 11:51:29 AM »
To be honest, probably a new hop up rubber and nub, The hop up rubbers that come with most clone AEG's suck.  Your's is no exception.  I would replace the hop up rubber ASAP before you start messing with anything else.  The cylinder volume is fine, I promise.  You are not going to see problems with barrel volume untill you get to much longer barrels (like an M16 length tightbore on an M4 cylinder)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline axisofoil

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 12:31:49 PM »
Quote from: "Whiskey11"
To be honest, probably a new hop up rubber and nub, The hop up rubbers that come with most clone AEG's suck.  Your's is no exception.  I would replace the hop up rubber ASAP before you start messing with anything else.  The cylinder volume is fine, I promise.  You are not going to see problems with barrel volume untill you get to much longer barrels (like an M16 length tightbore on an M4 cylinder)

I agree entirely. Especially when going from a stock e1 barrel to a 6.03, I've noticed a lot of buckings don't seal when placed on a madbull barrel, also. It could just be me, but I can't get a systema bucking to seal onto a madbull or prometheus barrel for the life of me. But that's me, systema buckings are supposedly some of the best. Don't let me talk you out of them. lol.

Also, your 9.4v battery? uh... what kind of battery is that? Maybe a 9.6 or an 8.4?  
Maybe try taking the tracer unit off (If it's aligned improperly, the bb's could be hitting it).

What part of the performance sucks? What is the gun doing, and what would you like it to do? What's your budget?
For example:
Problem: My shots go flying everywhere and my hopup isn't adjusting to be right where it should be. I would like my shots to be more accurate.  
Solution: Replace your hopup bucking and nub, we'll go from there. (It will cost you 5-15 dollars, depending on what kind you get)

Problem: My fps is super low, and I would like it to be in the 400 range.
Solution: Replace your spring with an sp110 or m120, bushings with metal bushings or bearings, spring guide, and piston with a polycarb, and your nozzle with an airseal nozzle. Also make sure you have already replaced your hopup bucking, barrel, and nub.

Problem: My rate of fire isn't as high as I would like it, I use a 9.6v 2200mAh mini battery.
Solution: Switch to a higher mah battery, a 10.8v battery, or a large type battery, or a 11.1lipo if your internals are beefed  up, or a 7.4 lipo with a high c rate and high mAh rating, put in a softer spring, switch to high speed gears, switch to a low-resistance wireset, add a mosfet, put in a high-speed motor, switch to dean's connectors, get a low-resistance fuse, or all of the above. lol. RoF has bajillions of different ways to increase.




And to answer your other question. No, not all parts are 100% compatible. For example: If you're going to switch out a cylinder, get a cylinder head and piston head that are known to work well (same brand usually works well, although I've seen JBU have 'matched sets' that are so far off it makes people cry). However, for switching inner barrels, they're all compatible, but most stock buckings and nubs suck. A lot. I highly recommend the G&G green buckings for everybody. They also come with a quality nub (I don't use the nubs, but they seem very nice, i Just prefer h nubs or scs's)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 12:47:30 PM »
Quote from: "axisofoil"
I agree entirely. Especially when going from a stock e1 barrel to a 6.03, I've noticed a lot of buckings don't seal when placed on a madbull barrel, also. It could just be me, but I can't get a systema bucking to seal onto a madbull or prometheus barrel for the life of me. But that's me, systema buckings are supposedly some of the best. Don't let me talk you out of them. lol.

Strange, I've never had issues installing Guarder or Systema hop up rubbers on a madbull barrel?  I've installed 6 or so Madbull barrels on my own guns without a single issue lol.  I tend to stick to Guarder Black hop up rubbers, the Systema I've used in a pinch when I couldnt wait for a place to get one in stock and it performs alright.  Definetly H nub is the way to go, never used the SCS, heard good things, heard bad things, H nubs work just fine for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline axisofoil

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 01:34:53 PM »
Quote from: "Whiskey11"
Quote from: "axisofoil"
But that's me, systema buckings are supposedly some of the best. Don't let me talk you out of them. lol.

Strange, I've never had issues installing Guarder or Systema hop up rubbers on a madbull barrel?  I've installed 6 or so Madbull barrels on my own guns without a single issue lol.  I tend to stick to Guarder Black hop up rubbers, the Systema I've used in a pinch when I couldnt wait for a place to get one in stock and it performs alright.  Definetly H nub is the way to go, never used the SCS, heard good things, heard bad things, H nubs work just fine for me.

I hear good things about the SCS for soft and super-soft buckings. I personally don't use that thin of a bucking, so h-nubs work great.

Notice I put in the disclaimer that you shouldn't let me talk you out of a systema bucking because of my singular bad experience with them (it wore out in like 3000 rounds, granted the gun's shooting 500ish). I've never seen anyone have a problem with a guarder bucking except that they don't last as long as some others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whiskey11

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 02:59:39 PM »
Quote from: "axisofoil"
Quote from: "Whiskey11"
Quote from: "axisofoil"
But that's me, systema buckings are supposedly some of the best. Don't let me talk you out of them. lol.

Strange, I've never had issues installing Guarder or Systema hop up rubbers on a madbull barrel?  I've installed 6 or so Madbull barrels on my own guns without a single issue lol.  I tend to stick to Guarder Black hop up rubbers, the Systema I've used in a pinch when I couldnt wait for a place to get one in stock and it performs alright.  Definetly H nub is the way to go, never used the SCS, heard good things, heard bad things, H nubs work just fine for me.

I hear good things about the SCS for soft and super-soft buckings. I personally don't use that thin of a bucking, so h-nubs work great.

Notice I put in the disclaimer that you shouldn't let me talk you out of a systema bucking because of my singular bad experience with them (it wore out in like 3000 rounds, granted the gun's shooting 500ish). I've never seen anyone have a problem with a guarder bucking except that they don't last as long as some others.

Guarder Black, 125,000 rounds and counting at 390 FPS w/ AE .25's.  ;)

I dont like Systema either, but they can be used in a pinch.
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Offline axisofoil

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 03:55:58 PM »
Quote from: "Whiskey11"

Guarder Black, 125,000 rounds and counting at 390 FPS w/ AE .25's.  ;)

I dont like Systema either, but they can be used in a pinch.
Is that 390 fps w/.25's? or 390fps, and THEN using .25's?

I'm at about 20000 on 430fps w/ .25's, after 40k or so on 430fps w/.2's on the G&G green. I got a new one for my ak in the mail friday. I can't tell the difference between them. NO wear and tear yet. :D     Striking contrast from the 5k rounds until failure on the systema.
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Offline Whiskey11

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 04:06:22 PM »
Quote from: "axisofoil"
Quote from: "Whiskey11"

Guarder Black, 125,000 rounds and counting at 390 FPS w/ AE .25's.  ;)

I dont like Systema either, but they can be used in a pinch.
Is that 390 fps w/.25's? or 390fps, and THEN using .25's?

I'm at about 20000 on 430fps w/ .25's, after 40k or so on 430fps w/.2's on the G&G green. I got a new one for my ak in the mail friday. I can't tell the difference between them. NO wear and tear yet. :D     Striking contrast from the 5k rounds until failure on the systema.

Thats 390 FPS w/ AE .25's.  So like 430ish with .20's.
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Offline BahaBill

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2010, 04:36:18 PM »
Funny thing you say the nub. When I bought the barrel the guy at the store threw it in because he was affraid I wouldnt put it in right. When I got home I shot it and the BB's almost just limped out the barrel. Also had no hop up adjustablily either.
I took it apart and found the little round rubber piece that pushes against the nub ( thats the inch long 1/2 round seal over the barrel right ) wasnt inplace right. I put it back in now and have to adjust the hop up all the way up and it just doesnt have the same velocity and carry distance the O.E. barrel did. The gun only has about 5-7k rounds throught it.
So Ill order a new one from AS GI  and install it. Goes Barrel with metal ring then rubber boot right.....????
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Offline axisofoil

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »
Quote from: "BahaBill"
Funny thing you say the nub. When I bought the barrel the guy at the store threw it in because he was affraid I wouldnt put it in right. When I got home I shot it and the BB's almost just limped out the barrel. Also had no hop up adjustablily either.
I took it apart and found the little round rubber piece that pushes against the nub ( thats the inch long 1/2 round seal over the barrel right ) wasnt inplace right. I put it back in now and have to adjust the hop up all the way up and it just doesnt have the same velocity and carry distance the O.E. barrel did. The gun only has about 5-7k rounds throught it.
So Ill order a new one from AS GI  and install it. Goes Barrel with metal ring then rubber boot right.....????

Wrong. Wrong. and more Wrong.

The nub is that little round rubber piece.
The bucking is the round piece of rubber/silicone etc that fits around the barrel. (should be round, not half round)
If you have a nub (little rubber piece) you shouldn't have to adjust your hopup all the way up at all.
Get a new hopup bucking, and a new nub. too much hopup will severely limit your fps, but if you're hopped just right, you get the maximum range with an insignificant drop in fps.

The metal ring is a barrel spacer, and isn't needed unless your barrel wobbles inside your hopup.
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Offline MGfoley2

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2010, 11:55:11 PM »
Here is a link to a basic guide for assembling a hopup: http://www.airsoftretreat.com/reviews/s ... 118&cat=49
Also, this is a thread from a while back that has a ton of helpful links: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15664

Hope those help you out. Good luck with your gun.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Offline busta_cap

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 12:10:38 AM »
I am suprised no one mentioned that madbull barrels do need some pretty good break in. It took about 1000 rounds for my madbull 6.03 to even start shooting like anything good.
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Offline BahaBill

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 12:24:21 AM »
OK so before I went to bed this was eating me. I took in down to the hopper again and checked things out. The Original bucking around the MADBULL barrel was leaking. Just blowing air threw it and holding the the holes at the hop up I could hear the air. So I ordered this:
1 x ECHO 1 H Shape Hop Up Spacer Pack (2 in one pack) (F102404126 / ECHO HOP UP KNOB) = $5.00
1 x Systema Hop Up Bucking (H300900421 / SYSHOPUB) = $6.75
1 x Guarder Hop Up Bucking (G200100670 / GE0701) = $6.75
1 x Echo 1 / Modify SP110 spring (H102402463 / MODM110) = $12.00
------------------------------------------------------
Now what is the spring gonna do If you guys dont mind telling me???.DID NOT find much help in the search section....
Next I think I will buy the bushing kit before I tear in to the box!!!

And I have shot atleast 1500-2k rounds playing around with my son in the desert area sat eve.. Got a LITTLE better but still not much distance an sprayed everywere. I quess once I fix the seal The barrel is already broke in huh...
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Offline axisofoil

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 12:48:18 AM »
Quote from: "BahaBill"
OK so before I went to bed this was eating me. I took in down to the hopper again and checked things out. The Original bucking around the MADBULL barrel was leaking. Just blowing air threw it and holding the the holes at the hop up I could hear the air. So I ordered this:
1 x ECHO 1 H Shape Hop Up Spacer Pack (2 in one pack) (F102404126 / ECHO HOP UP KNOB) = $5.00
1 x Systema Hop Up Bucking (H300900421 / SYSHOPUB) = $6.75
1 x Guarder Hop Up Bucking (G200100670 / GE0701) = $6.75
1 x Echo 1 / Modify SP110 spring (H102402463 / MODM110) = $12.00
------------------------------------------------------
Now what is the spring gonna do If you guys dont mind telling me???.DID NOT find much help in the search section....
Next I think I will buy the bushing kit before I tear in to the box!!!

And I have shot atleast 1500-2k rounds playing around with my son in the desert area sat eve.. Got a LITTLE better but still not much distance an sprayed everywere. I quess once I fix the seal The barrel is already broke in huh...

The spring is going to increase your fps to around 350-380fps or so, assuming good airseal.
You only needed one bucking... but at least you get to find out which one works better.
Good choice on the H-nubs.

The leaky bucking caused me so much trouble until I figured out what it was. Terrible accuracy and low fps. Hopefully that does it all for you.
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Offline busta_cap

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Re: Airsoft Upgades ???
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 12:58:13 AM »
Quote from: "axisofoil"
Quote from: "BahaBill"
OK so before I went to bed this was eating me. I took in down to the hopper again and checked things out. The Original bucking around the MADBULL barrel was leaking. Just blowing air threw it and holding the the holes at the hop up I could hear the air. So I ordered this:
1 x ECHO 1 H Shape Hop Up Spacer Pack (2 in one pack) (F102404126 / ECHO HOP UP KNOB) = $5.00
1 x Systema Hop Up Bucking (H300900421 / SYSHOPUB) = $6.75
1 x Guarder Hop Up Bucking (G200100670 / GE0701) = $6.75
1 x Echo 1 / Modify SP110 spring (H102402463 / MODM110) = $12.00
------------------------------------------------------
Now what is the spring gonna do If you guys dont mind telling me???.DID NOT find much help in the search section....
Next I think I will buy the bushing kit before I tear in to the box!!!

And I have shot atleast 1500-2k rounds playing around with my son in the desert area sat eve.. Got a LITTLE better but still not much distance an sprayed everywere. I quess once I fix the seal The barrel is already broke in huh...

The spring is going to increase your fps to around 350-380fps or so, assuming good airseal.
You only needed one bucking... but at least you get to find out which one works better.
Good choice on the H-nubs.

The leaky bucking caused me so much trouble until I figured out what it was. Terrible accuracy and low fps. Hopefully that does it all for you.

Madbull barrel's have that coating on them that doesn't help with this process of sealing. Something I suggest with most AEG buckings and barrels is very tightly wrapping the last 1/8th in of bucking(towards exit of barrel) onto the barrel its self with teflon tape. Be careful not to wriggle or cock the bucking from its original position. This will ensure a proper seal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »