airsoft and the use of grenades

[axisofoil]

The only grenades that should be allowed are ones that actually go off (including CO2 with no bb's). Dummy grenades are retarded as the person they are intended to "kill" may not even see/hear it, and the distances of the killzone could be easily argued. We already have enough descrepincies in the game as it is, there's no need to add another layer to mix.

Even with the flaws their use adds a realistic element to the game which makes it a lot more exciting!

Real guns would add a realistic element too. I don't think I would personally find the game as exciting though.
I would argue the other way from you... that dummy grenades are preferable to co2 grenades. Sure, they're going to hear it, but the same killzone argument happens, and the intended victim may instead be disoriented and cause harm to others in addition. They both have their place in the game, but I would prefer that a thunder B grenade never came flying towards my position while I'm being advanced on for many reasons. The chances of hearing damage that have been beaten like a redheaded stepchild, and the chance that I may engage someone well within my MED if something that loud were to make me simultaneously piss myself and pull the trigger as someone's head pops up right in front of me. I would feel absolutely awful. Warm, a little soggy, but awful.

[D.RICH.1]

MTT has introduced the use of the Thunder B grenades for some of our training programs.  Our staff has witnessed a few of these grenades "explode" in the hands of trainees who tried to cook them off as the delays can be unpredictable.  

When interviewed about the effect of the explosion in their hand, all reported that aside from being scared sh*tle$$, they had not suffered any physical injury to their hand.  They did note that the blast was quite loud but the trainee did not relate any ringing of the ears.  
It may be possible that these individuals did suffer some minor hearing damage, but our staff had no way of verifying this at the time.

thank you...they arent that lound....they are but not that bad...great post in this discussion... =D>

now i have another question for those who have the thunder B grenades....i heard from some1 whos has them that some time they do not go off...some times a 50/50 chance of them not going off....now i have four of the internals so i can have four at all times and have already gone thru maybe 30 casings...and not one of mine didnt not go off....

does any1 else have the problem of the grenades NOT going off...i would like to hear about it and how often they fail...

[Comrade Commissar]

I hate to bring up old posts... but heres my 2 cents...

I wouldn't really care if people used grenades... id probably prefer them in a more open area as i dont want one flying through the window of a 4ft by 4 ft mock house... However id still accept that as a kill too.

As for the aforementioned expectation of results... this is airsoft... Alot of times any sort of hit could be disputed, and you're gonna be let down at some point. If you miss, or the other person thinks they're still alive... Oh well, regardless of what you used your gonna have to keep trying. Alot of people expect to be completely safe during airsoft as well, and are letdown when an injury occurs, forgetting that they entered into a military simulation and are being shot at... You just have to learn to shrug things off and keep playing, what you perceive to be happening and how the other person perceives it are entirely different... perception is often not even close to reality.

In real life there are many stories about people laying flat within 5 to 10 feet of a grenade, on the ground, and coming out unscathed, as the blast "supposedly" goes up and out... One could argue that laying down negates a kill in airsoft then. However i would say the closer it was to me, the more likely it is im actually dead. I would give benefit of the doubt to the grenade thrower. You can usually always respawn anyways.

In short, i think if you got em, use em... and if your not happy with any of your results from any facet of airsoft, welcome to the real world, thats what you get for expectations... And if they arent allowed in a match, tough day for you, maybe next time. I dont think they should be disallowed, but i would never argue with the match rules.

As Hunter S Thompson would say "all energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet, what a fool i was to defy him"

[Pick]

I would like to see that up and out theory tested out lol

[Comrade Commissar]

Yeah, me too... its not something id be in line for... one of these other guys can test it The specific story i remember was about one of the rangers during the Operation Gothic Serpent raid in Mogadishu, Somalia on the 3rd and 4th... I know ive heard it mentioned else where... however they are STORIES. If a real grenade ever lands near me and i happened to be laying down without the time to get up... ill let you guys know how it goes...  :mrgreen:

[Pick]

See the problem with those stories is the way that modern grenades explode. The elctronic timer blows out in all directions much like a water balloon explodes (or so goes my understanding) the explosion starts out at the bottom and works upward. So someone that is laying flat 5 to 10 feet even if they aren't killed by shrapnel the pressure wave will get them at that range and turn their organs to mush (of course the body armor negates some pressure)

As for older or forigen type grenades I'm not sure

[Zuul99]

I have mixed feelings about them. I hate them because they make me Poop my pants (good thing i wear dark pants   ) and there great if you ever see a patrol and you take them out in one shot. So it really depends on my mood to get a feeling

[Mooncruiser]

We used to have a A.A. member who made rubber grenades, with a long red strip that was pulled out just before throwing.. ("BOOM, Doods!") Well, it wasn't all that exciting, but did add a force multiplier effect to some games.

It was as safe as anything we could use. And it did come in handy for one game that had real, moving Jeeps on each side. -Hit one with a frag, and the vehicle was "captured" by that side.

I like the idea of a detuned flashbang like these Thunder things, but then, I'm almost deaf anyway. (Rock music, real firearms, etc)..

If it makes the game more fun, do it.
Chip

[D.RICH.1]

We used to have a A.A. member who made rubber grenades, with a long red strip that was pulled out just before throwing.. ("BOOM, Doods!") Well, it wasn't all that exciting, but did add a force multiplier effect to some games.

It was as safe as anything we could use. And it did come in handy for one game that had real, moving Jeeps on each side. -Hit one with a frag, and the vehicle was "captured" by that side.

I like the idea of a detuned flashbang like these Thunder things, but then, I'm almost deaf anyway. (Rock music, real firearms, etc)..

If it makes the game more fun, do it.
Chip

thats exactly why i brought the subject up...if it makes the game more fun then why not

[USLegionary]

I love the use of airsoft gernades but not so much the mock grenades. These are unclear half the time when they hit and many people will hide the fact they were "killed" by a mock grenade. That being said I am a huge fan and see their clear tactical advantage in an airsoft game. Just this weekend at Vanguard a team of six men was held up in a bunker we couldn't break into. A grenade is the strategical answer to this situation and why they are so important in CQB. So I think the use of actual airsoft gernades instead of mock gernades should be the real answer. That way theres a chance of survival, you know if you've been hit, and you can do the all impressive "jump on the gernade and save your teammates deal". (that being said anyone know what the best airsoft gernade is?)

[carbon14c]

I love the use of airsoft gernades but not so much the mock grenades. These are unclear half the time when they hit and many people will hide the fact they were "killed" by a mock grenade. That being said I am a huge fan and see their clear tactical advantage in an airsoft game. Just this weekend at Vanguard a team of six men was held up in a bunker we couldn't break into. A grenade is the strategical answer to this situation and why they are so important in CQB. So I think the use of actual airsoft gernades instead of mock gernades should be the real answer. That way theres a chance of survival, you know if you've been hit, and you can do the all impressive "jump on the gernade and save your teammates deal". (that being said anyone know what the best airsoft gernade is?)

not quite sure what these "gernades" you speak of are..



that being said, a while back one of the CT guys was showing me a little contraption he had made up that simulated a grenade

it consisted of a whiffle-ball looking thing, only smaller in diameter.. he had a little shock-sensor inside the ball, upon impact it emitted a beeping noise thus simulating an explosion without the shrapnel! pretty neat, definitely better then the rubber dummy grenades

i'm sketchy on the details, it was a while ago.. please correct me if i described it wrong  

[USLegionary]

They sell airsoft gernades, such as the Tornado.

[SGT. DANGLE]

I like grenades. Then again the prices I don't like. Though if they were low priced then every dummy would own one. I like them because it adds realism that I crave and enjoy out of airsoft apart from being from the actual real deal. I don't like how many loose pieces there are and can be lost easily and new grenades and spare parts are not cheap and over time you will end up wasting money. If anything, those Co2 Sound Simulation grenades/flash bangs I prefer. Though grenades (in airsoft) should realistically be used in an indoor controlled environment and use wisely. For outdoor use; find a way to create a cheap grenade dummy; or just buy a cheap grenade dummy that if you loose it, it won't matter.

[Mooncruiser]

..Maybe stretching the topic a little, but there is also that fun little number called The Ice Cream Bomb. I've played games where there were a few of these armed and hidden, and we had to locate them and tag 'em before they went off.

Note: Though non-pyrotechnic, I don't know if it's kosher on this board to describe these in any better detail, so.. Those of you who know what they are can pass the info off-forum to who you please.

Ice Cream Bombs are DAMN LOUD though. Fun Fun!
Chip

[Mooncruiser]

BTW, don't ask me how to make one. and check this from Wikipedia..

Dry ice bombs are illegal in many jurisdictions.

A law in California that defines "destructive device" includes a list of "weapons" including "[a]ny sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an explosion by a chemical reaction."[2]
In Nebraska [3] and in other areas the noise generated may violate local laws.
Arizona prohibits dry ice bombs if there is an intent to cause injury, death, or damage to the property of another,[4] as well as their possession by "prohibited possessors" such as convicted felons and illegal immigrants.[5]
Leaving an unexploded dry ice bomb can be construed as public endangerment, and can and will damage public or private property.
Utah has taken a strong stance against dry ice bombs, labeling and treating them as "homemade explosive devices". Utah recently made simple possession of a dry ice bomb and similar pressurized chemical reaction bombs a second-degree felony; multiple people have been tried as felons for intentionally exploding gas-pressure bombs.[6] One must be 16 years or older to purchase dry ice in Utah and ID to verify age is commonly requested. If a dry ice bomb causes injury or if the intent of the bomb is to cause personal injury or damage to structures, possession is a first-degree felony; if detonated within a close radius to a school, church or the like, the charge is also bumped from a second to a first-degree felony.[7] The Utah bomb squad says this hard stance is due to: "Thirty to 50 times a year, the Salt Lake bomb squad gets called out for one of these explosives (dry ice bomb). The injuries they've seen are life-changing: everything from blown-off fingers to extreme burns; some have lost their hearing and eyesight."[8]
Arrests are frequent.[9][10] Injuries have been reported; glass bottles in particular pose a risk of serious injury.[11][12][13][14]
So, Don't do it!
Chip