Author Topic: Vanguard bbs  (Read 3857 times)

Offline bailey5671

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Vanguard bbs
« on: March 19, 2011, 07:49:19 AM »
I want to get this out of the way early, I am not angry with vanguard, I simply want them to fix their bbs. I was playing at vanguard last friday and my magazine jammed, so i take a look inside and find a very oddly shaped bb, i wasnt able to snap a picture but it looked like a regular bb with an added cylindrical piece to it, i mean cmon? really? yea it was one weird shaped bb. Im posting this to just offer my frustration with vanguards poor quality bbs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline xXmusicimpactXx

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 10:17:45 AM »
There's already a topic for this:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29628

Yeah, it sucks they cheaped out on the bbs... The response on here has been rather large, hopefully they'll remedy the situation in the near future.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline VIP - Vanguard

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 04:33:15 PM »
We understand that there have been players who are voicing or have experienced issues with our new bbs, however, they are no different that the ones we used to have except the custom designed color.  

Again, we do hear and take into consideration the issues that all of you bring up on these forums, we have had very few if any complaints since the opening weekend we debuted them. So please, if you do have an issue, please make our team aware at the time of the issue so we can document what really caused the issue. This will help us track how much of the problems are coming from the bbs, when they are happening, and what kind of guns are being most affected.

Thank you and please PM if you have any further questions or concerns.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:13:31 PM by VIP - Vanguard »
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Offline XavierMace

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 04:39:21 PM »
Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
it happened the same weekend we had a large storm cell through the area bringing in more humidity and dirt residue into the arena, which as any players knows, can create issues with the gun mechanisms.

LOLWUT?  So are you trying to state that humidity outdoors magically makes guns jam indoors?
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Offline WAR 920

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 05:01:46 PM »
Quote from: "XavierMace"
Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
it happened the same weekend we had a large storm cell through the area bringing in more humidity and dirt residue into the arena, which as any players knows, can create issues with the gun mechanisms.

LOLWUT?  So are you trying to state that humidity outdoors magically makes guns jam indoors?
As much as I absolutly HATE to agree with xaviermace, he brings up a very good point. Don't make up fucking excuses, just say "We Fucked Up" and take responsibility.
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Offline bailey5671

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 05:02:55 PM »
i think because of your bbs and this random humidity storm you broke my new combat machine m4, thanks vanguard. this gun was literally a week old and now its not functioning properly. thank god for airsoft gi and their 15 day warranty
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Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 05:31:08 PM »
..A bad .bb wrecked your gun?

..And Vanguard, stop with the humidity bullshit, this isn't a paintball.
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Offline bailey5671

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 05:37:32 PM »
yes if bad bbs are used in a gun it can break a gun, that is a widely known fact, there bbs would constantly jam in my gun and would cause multiple bbs shot at once, which is not good to an airsoft gun.
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Offline VIP - Vanguard

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 09:50:48 PM »
We are sorry that so many of you continue to feel this way about our bbs and our business practices, however, please consider the following:

If you personally have problems with your gun and believe it to be the bbs please let a ref or the tech know immediately.

If you have a specific issue, please PM and we can discuss the details of the root issue. Thank you!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:14:37 PM by VIP - Vanguard »
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Offline XavierMace

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 10:24:31 PM »
Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
The humidity is not the only thing that was affecting game play during the storm cell, although it is proven that humidity changes affect the inner barrel size and can cause swelling and constriction of the springs as well as the bbs. The high percentage of particulates put into the air from the high winds and storms also get into the groves and mechanisms of the guns and magazines. All of this combined puts strain on the gun, magazine and bb. We are not blaming the issues with the bbs all on weather, however, it is a factor that influences game play and needed to be taken into account.

By all means, show me this proof.  I've personally been playing airsoft for many years (outdoors), and I've played in far more humid conditions than we've had in the last few weeks.  Hell, I've played in the rain more than once.  Oddly enough, I've never experienced this issue.  I would LOVE to see some sort of proof that a little humidity causes my stainless steel barrel to shrink, especially to a degree to cause issues.

For the record, my issue isn't with your BB's.  While they certainly aren't great BB's, I didn't have any issues with them.  My issue is with you making up random crap rather than addressing the concerns.  There's really a simple solution to this.  We already have a thread on here of BB diameters.  If you guys don't agree with the complaints against the BB's you are using then post results of your BB's in that thread.

With that said however, since you guys require people to use your BB's it behooves you to address these complaints rather than just shrug them off as you are now.  You are going to be hard pressed to keep people coming if they believe your BB's are breaking their guns, regardless if it's true or not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Exarach

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 11:32:49 PM »
Quote from: "XavierMace"
Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
The humidity is not the only thing that was affecting game play during the storm cell, although it is proven that humidity changes affect the inner barrel size and can cause swelling and constriction of the springs as well as the bbs. The high percentage of particulates put into the air from the high winds and storms also get into the groves and mechanisms of the guns and magazines. All of this combined puts strain on the gun, magazine and bb. We are not blaming the issues with the bbs all on weather, however, it is a factor that influences game play and needed to be taken into account.

By all means, show me this proof.  I've personally been playing airsoft for many years (outdoors), and I've played in far more humid conditions than we've had in the last few weeks.  Hell, I've played in the rain more than once.  Oddly enough, I've never experienced this issue.  I would LOVE to see some sort of proof that a little humidity causes my stainless steel barrel to shrink, especially to a degree to cause issues.

For the record, my issue isn't with your BB's.  While they certainly aren't great BB's, I didn't have any issues with them.  My issue is with you making up random crap rather than addressing the concerns.  There's really a simple solution to this.  We already have a thread on here of BB diameters.  If you guys don't agree with the complaints against the BB's you are using then post results of your BB's in that thread.

With that said however, since you guys require people to use your BB's it behooves you to address these complaints rather than just shrug them off as you are now.  You are going to be hard pressed to keep people coming if they believe your BB's are breaking their guns, regardless if it's true or not.

Ya, not to keep knocking on the internet ninja science going on here, but I have repeatedly played in VN recreation games where my replica got very humid, and several times fully submerged, never had an issue.

I have an idea for you, post a vid on youtube of a few guns going through (X) rounds of your pellets with no problems, not really scientific or conclusive, but it would at least prove they work.

I think the breaking here comes from the guns used, if you are trying to beat around the bush and be nice, don't, push the balls out and go ahead and say the reason the guns are breaking is because there was a problem with the guns, not your pellets.

Anyone who even glances through the vanguard vids can see more than a couple clearsoft crosmans, or entry level guns. I guarantee they are not maintained regularly. Couple that with the spraying and theres your recipe for issues.

As to the gun that broke only after a few days of use, more than likely a factory issue, not vanguard.

HOWEVER, I would like to know WTF can go wrong by using bad pellets that could seriously break a gun. As long as they are .2-.23 minimum weight, what can they do?

Even with my tightest bore barrels, using the shittiest ammo possible, I have only ever gotten pellets jammed in the barrel, which were quickly fixed. Even when a pellet gets caught in the hop, (my e1's do this, no idea why) The worst you get is a failure to feed, and a weird noise.

The only possible scenarios I can think of at all, is a .12 not having enough mass, and over time you crack your piston head or GB, OR a pellet gets jammed and doesn't let the airnozzle go forward, which is STILL a moot point, as even a tappet plate and nozzle can remain full back during firring without taking any damage, it just wont engage.

Maybe its just late, and I am not thinking.... but.....  ? How are these pellets breaking your guns exactly?
Are they cursed pellets? Voodoo pellets?
Just because an ammo looks rough, (and trust me, that isnt good, or any type of pellet I would buy given a choice) doesn't mean it is in any way going to ruin your gun.

 

However, I would expect these kind of threads as long as you continue to require use of your own ammo, just peoples personal feelings.
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Offline VIP - Vanguard

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 11:54:23 PM »
We are in no way "shrugging" this issue off. We are dedicated to our customers and again, are trying our best to find out the real issue behind the bbs since the only difference from our originals is the color and we had no problems with the white ones.

As Exarach suggested, look through our player posted headcam videos taken during and throughout play of people playing with our bbs that are not encountering problems, and we will take into consideration providing videos of several guns running through a magazine of our bbs without issue.

If you have personally had an issue with our bbs, please PM so we can discuss in greater detail what you encountered, the kind of gun you played with, the type of magazine you used and if you have any modifications to your gun.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:15:17 PM by VIP - Vanguard »
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Offline XavierMace

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 12:01:17 AM »
Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
"Almost all Airsoft Electric Guns have very sensitive hop up adjustments. A minute movement of the adjustment wheel or arm can cause large variations in BB trajectory.
Hop up mechanism can move and shift as the gun is being used. Expect to reset your hop up periodically.
Many factors can affect your gun's trajectory: cleanliness of the barrel, weight of BB, wind, humidity, and air density. Don't assume your gun will fire the same way anywhere, anytime, anywhen." - Posted on GamePod Combat Airsoft

"The diameter of an inner barrel directly effects how stable the BB will be when it enters open trajectory; the larger the diameter, the more "wiggle room" the BB has, meaning it can actually bounce, vibrate, and radically spin before it enters open trajectory, greatly reducing accuracy. The smaller the diameter, the less "wiggle room" the BB has, thus increasing it's stability and accuracy during open trajectory. However, if the diameter is too small even the tiniest dust or dirt particles may cause a jam." - Posted on Airsoft Society

Definition of PROOF (noun)
1
a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact
b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

In addition, suggesting weather effects the guns accuracy and weather causing jams are two entirely different things.

Quote from: "VIP - Vanguard"
"physical damage resulting from misuse; contact with liquid, water, rain, extreme humidity or heavy perspiration, sand, dirt or the like, extreme heat, or food" - Provided by Airsoft GI in product disclaimers

Really, you are trying to use a legal disclaimer as evidence in your favor?

Like I said, all you have to do to prove your side of the argument is perform the same testing that's been done on numerous other BB's on yours.  Or are you afraid of what that might show?
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Offline Exarach

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 11:23:31 AM »
You know what? I will fix this. Vanguard, would you be ok with shipping BB's to me in Tucson? If I were to purchase about a 1000 or so of your rounds, and you would be able to provide some kind of seal on the bag to prove they were yours, I will do a full comparison test with other brands.

I would come get some in person, but its pretty far away.

I will run them through High rps, high FPS, hop up, WET, dirty, everything. And post good quality video.

Let me know.
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Offline Crono0001

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Re: Vanguard bbs
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 11:41:01 AM »
Quote from: "Exarach"
You know what? I will fix this. Vanguard, would you be ok with shipping BB's to me in Tucson? If I were to purchase about a 1000 or so of your rounds, and you would be able to provide some kind of seal on the bag to prove they were yours, I will do a full comparison test with other brands.

I would come get some in person, but its pretty far away.

I will run them through High rps, high FPS, hop up, WET, dirty, everything. And post good quality video.

Let me know.

Shaun, you can use my new lab.  We've got calipers and scales that go out 4 decimal places.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Guest »