Author Topic: "Bang-Bang!" Rule  (Read 10868 times)

Offline Rockit

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"Bang-Bang!" Rule
« on: September 20, 2011, 05:11:04 PM »
I apologize if this has been asked before, but I was having trouble finding the answer on this forum...

What is the standardized Bang-Bang rule that we all will honor/respect? 10 feet? 20 feet? What about front encounters, or through bushes? I don't want to be the one that ruins the day for someone.
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Where there once were feely fingers, Now protrude poisonous stingers
Feel I'm left with no recourse,But to kill her with no remorse

Offline gunny77

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 06:09:09 PM »
Personally i dont use the bang bang rule cause everyone iv ever used it on just turnes right around and trys to shoot me and I allways end up shooting them.anyway so I personaly dont like it. But if u have them dead to rights there shouldnt be a bang bang rule but id say probley 15 feet would be a good distance. And if u come up on each other face to face id say just to settle it real fast instead of causing an argument u both walk back and either respawn or die
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Offline Ganef

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 06:44:27 PM »
I would say that the rule is within 10ft, and usually has to be an obvious line of sight kill. You can't yell it over an obstacle and expect the other guy to give up. However if you have sights on and are pointing through a hole in the brush or pallet or whatever then fine.

This goes out the window in a CQB environment.

User discretion though, don't get pissed when the person you shout at, turns around and stitches you up the front, because they almost always will. Many times they have done that after I have shot them as well, and then get pissed because you didn't also call yourself out.
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Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 06:53:42 PM »
I just shoot them in the foot if I have them that close. Doesn't hurt much.
"Knife Kills" or surrenders are always asked after all the slack is off your trigger..
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Offline Apacolypsio

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 07:46:40 PM »
There seems to be two rules the "surrender" and the "bang bang" the "bang bang" is suppose to imply no last stands However i find it very rare for anyone to hold true to this the "Surrender" gives them a chance but ive never seen anyone ANYONE surrender. Therefore when surrender rule is in play i find myself telling my squad to back up a few feet and put some rounds in a well clothed area of the back. now back to the "bang bang" If i am forced to hold my fire within a certain range the best way to stop a quick turn around followed up by a shot in the face is get very close I usually act as a teamate get right on em put my hand on their shoulder and say "bang bang your out, im not on your team" they usually dont try to shoot me then.
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Offline Rockit

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 09:41:09 AM »
Yeah, well I shot a guy through a bush at about 10 feet in the face (completely accidentally, I was aiming low) and he yelled at me that there was a proximity limit for a reason. Any comments on this situation?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 02:20:13 PM by Rockit »
Harmful heat in my hugs hide,My lips are laced with cyanide
Never mind my medicine breath,Come hither for a kiss of Death...
Where there once were feely fingers, Now protrude poisonous stingers
Feel I'm left with no recourse,But to kill her with no remorse

Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 09:48:25 AM »
There are usually rules against "blind firing" in a game. You should always see what you're shooting at before you take the shot.
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Offline gunny77

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 09:52:03 AM »
Yeah, well I shot a guy through a bush at about 10 feet in the face (completely accidentally, I was aiming low) and he yelled at that there was a proximity limit for a reason. Any comments on this situation?
If it was a honest mistake then all well. Im sure hes done the same thing a few times in his airsoft career. We all have. S**t happens life goes on. Now if u perpously turned at him and shot him in the face thats a hole different story. But were all human its our sympathetic responce to turn and pull the trigger when we see someone else with a gun pointed at us.
A hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down.
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Offline Rockit

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 10:07:26 AM »
There are usually rules against "blind firing" in a game. You should always see what you're shooting at before you take the shot.
Is shooting through a sparse bush considered blind firing even though I could see him pretty clearly?
Harmful heat in my hugs hide,My lips are laced with cyanide
Never mind my medicine breath,Come hither for a kiss of Death...
Where there once were feely fingers, Now protrude poisonous stingers
Feel I'm left with no recourse,But to kill her with no remorse

Offline SpiritOfSimo

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 10:56:13 AM »
I've never told anyone to surrender, I just pull out my sidearm and pop them once in center of mass, and never had an injury or incident. I always play as a sniper (hate cqb). Some games/hosts make it a rule that a sniper can't get a surrender kill at close range with their primary; the sniper must have a lower fps sidearm.

Conversely, I always honor surrender kills against me at any range, usually because the only range I can hear "surrender" is less than 15 feet anyway, unless they're yelling something like a "surrender or die" war-cry.


 I remember at least one person who generously announced "surrender!" when I passed a blind corner that I couldn't see at first, and I was grateful that he didn't light me up (he had a SAW).

Is shooting through a sparse bush considered blind firing even though I could see him pretty clearly?

I would consider that blind firing only if you poked your arm and weapon through the bush in an attempt to spray the other side without verifying your target.

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Offline Mooncruiser

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 12:54:43 PM »
Rockit, if you can see your target, you're gtg to shoot where you see.
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Offline Rockit

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2011, 02:21:02 PM »
Rockit, if you can see your target, you're gtg to shoot where you see.
Light 'em up!!
Harmful heat in my hugs hide,My lips are laced with cyanide
Never mind my medicine breath,Come hither for a kiss of Death...
Where there once were feely fingers, Now protrude poisonous stingers
Feel I'm left with no recourse,But to kill her with no remorse

Offline xTanTricK

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 03:59:36 PM »
The group I play with does use the surrender/bang bang rule. Within 10ft, give or take a few, we always use that rule. Everybody, not just the group I normally play with, I have surrendered or bang banged at any airsoft event has always given up and called their hit. Even in Vangaurd when I surrender somebody they call it. I've never had anybody turn around and shoot me when I surrender them but then again my rifle is usually pointed at them so when they turn around that's the first thing they see. Personally I think it's a good rule as long as you respect it and follow it. But don't get your feelings hurt when you surrender somebody and they turn around and shoot you. If they look like they are going to shoot when they turn around or raise their gun at you, shoot them. If they take the hit then you don't have to worry about it. If the person is smart they'll take the hit, if they aren't they'll try and shoot you. That usually never ends well. Either both people are hit and argue or one person ends up getting lit up and is pissed the rest of the day.
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Offline -MAD- SARGE

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 05:45:34 PM »
Bang Bang/ Surrender Theory

Bang Bang and surrender rules are the same thing just a different name.   Within 10ft distance usually or with in a distance or situation that you would not wish to be shot at.  I hate the term surrender as it implies that it is voluntary, it is not if used correctly.  If used correctly it is obvious to both parties that one person clearly has the advantage while the other one does not and had no chance to provide a response.  Surrender/Bang Band to me means that the player choose to tell you they sent a round out to hit you instead of actually shooting you.  So in most cases this should be clear and I welcome people choosing not to shoot me in the face in a precarious position and instead letting me know that I am now dead. If it is not absolutely clear that one person has an advantage, then the parlay rules should be utilized. I believe that most grey area incidents could have been avoided if the parlay rule was used.

A Bad Situation
An example of a possible situation that may require a safety kill is if someone is preoccupied climbing down a real steep hill side. The close opposing player should call bang bang/surrender out of safety because of any of the three cases.
1. the climber is not at the ready, not even close to being able to return fire. 
2. the climber does not even realize the opposing player is there
3. the climber may fall if he is shot and startled.

Re-Cap of surender/Bang Bang Rules
The "surrenderee" must be in an obvious bad or unprepared position so much that the surrenderee can not have any hope of an adequate response and or their response/reaction may lead them being injured.  On the other hand the person calling for surrender or Bang Bang must have a clear and distinct advantage over the surrenderee, usually best described as sneaking up behind the person or has them dead to rights.   At the same time a just player can't run around the field at every slight hint of an advantage and be calling for bang bang kills, while the opposing player has a good chance of providing a meaningful response.

Real World Example
But lets face it, that rarely happens, lets take the bush situation for example. In the case described above where 2 people are separated 10ft. by a bush, usually the players are placed into the situation because one player walks into the area where the enemy is already laying in wait.  The person laying in wait should either choose to do one of 3 things;
1. Call bang bang, clearly showing they have a good bead and line of sight on the individual while the individual is clearly at a disposition where he could not have provided a meaningful response.
2. Call a parlay and follow parlay rules.
3. Wait for player to move past the minimum engagement distance and shoot with a clear shot. 

Conclusion
Most people can't judge distance well and I think that most people get caught up playing the game of airsoft where they are not out unless they are hit by a bb, while some other individuals have the mentality which asks themselves, "if the enemy had a real weapon am I in a decent position to provide a reasonable response or a response at all?"    It all boils down to good judgement/common sense and if more people thought the latter, I'm sure there would be less arguing and bickering.  In most cases that I have been shot up close, unless I am unjustly lit up with an unnecessary amount of rounds at very close range, I understand that I come out to get shot while playing airsoft!  No one wants to be shot by full auto at a close distance, so if in doubt use semi and pick the least sensitive area to shoot. 


P.S. I agree with David, these rules don't work well in CQB environments. Instead most bang bang/surrender rules should be placed out the window and put in place semi-auto only and lower FPS rules. At a CQB event it should be expected you are going to get shot up close and personal, just aim for the chest or midsection.  And when I say aim, I really mean aim, not just eyeball it.  If your gona eyeball it or hip swing it then target the legs cause most people tend to shoot high!

« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:48:12 PM by -MAD- SARGE »


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Offline Rockit

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Re: "Bang-Bang!" Rule
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 09:43:58 AM »
Thanks SARGE, that is sure to help us all out. 8)
Harmful heat in my hugs hide,My lips are laced with cyanide
Never mind my medicine breath,Come hither for a kiss of Death...
Where there once were feely fingers, Now protrude poisonous stingers
Feel I'm left with no recourse,But to kill her with no remorse