AZ trust Land & permits

[Flick]

We are confirming it is indeed BLM. Buy some bios and get ready!

Chip,

I was going to PM you but I think everyone's interested so rather than wait:

Yes, Hatfield West is on BLM land. Using http://sco.az.gov/website/parcels/viewer.htm as the map of record and my GPS, I've verified that the entire section we are looking at is BLM land. It does have private and State Trust land around it, so we'll need to be careful of boundaries, but overall there's plenty of room.

Sorry we didn't meet up to walk the field Thursday evening. Shall we try again over the weekend?

All - Once we're done figuring things out (parking, primarily), we'll post the full details. Per Jacob's post above, we'll tentatively plan for Sunday the 26th.

Thanks,

Peter

[Mooncruiser]

Yes. Sorry Peter, I was unable to call Thursday. Let me say I appreciate all your help.
Okay, why don't we stop worrying about State trust land and usless permits and go play! Buy bios, shoot people, be happy.

[Flick]

Okay, why don't we stop worrying about State trust land and usless permits and go play! Buy bios, shoot people, be happy.

Works for me.

For those that are curious: http://g.co/maps/5by8t

[Mooncruiser]

High-quality Google Map, pleh.
Note that we are using the area SOUTH of Hatfield rd as there is a house (not close, but being careful) off-field to the north.

[Flick]

High-quality Google Map, pleh.
Note that we are using the area SOUTH of Hatfield rd as there is a house (not close, but being careful) off-field to the north.

The houses on the west north of the road are up the cliff quite a bit, aren't they? Eh, we'll figure it out when we meet up. BLM goes north and south of the road so it's all good. PM or call me. Thanks!

[Fresnel]

If they spent half the time looking for a great area to play at other than complain where we play at is illegal... We could have a cool field.

You guys don't want to play out where I am. Great areas for games, but not worth the drive. Spartan'd love it, I'm right in his backyard, but the rest of you would rather save the extra gas money and use it to get into Fightertown, because I guarantee it's closer. Which is also the same reason I can't afford to haul out to Hatfield every day just to poke around. You live right down the street, you're poking around... no point in me going too. But like I said, you guys find a new Hatfield, I'll show up.

EDIT: Also, for the record, if I speed it's my ass on the line, and only my ass. If you guys go out airsofting in a place you know is illegal to do so, you give the whole community a bad name. If I get myself in trouble it's one thing, if I get other people in trouble for things that I did and they didn't, that's bullshit.

[Fresnel]

It does have private and State Trust land around it, so we'll need to be careful of boundaries, but overall there's plenty of room.

Maybe we should put up flags or something, just so we don't have any accidents. There's been a few games at the old Hatfield AO where people went WAY outside the normal AO, and we don't want someone to accidentally circle onto private land. Safety first and all.

[Fresnel]

Arizona defines "firearm", in the criminal code as, "...any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, or other weapon which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of expanding gases, except that it does not include a firearm in permanently inoperable condition."

Here's what I'm finding:

"Firearm" means any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other weapon that will expel, is designed to expel or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive. Firearm does not include a firearm in permanently inoperable condition.

[source] ARS 13-3101

So where are you getting that from? No offense meant, but an appeal to authority is only as good as the evidence to back it up.

[Wolfz]

Well, with the new hatfield pretty much ready, I do believe it is time for me to go out and buy some bio bbs. And plenty of them too, as I always end up sharing my supply with my guests.

[Kileyhaz]

EDIT: Also, for the record, if I speed it's my ass on the line, and only my ass. If you guys go out airsofting in a place you know is illegal to do so, you give the whole community a bad name. If I get myself in trouble it's one thing, if I get other people in trouble for things that I did and they didn't, that's bullshit.

QTF

This is also my point.  If anyone wants to go off and and rob the QT store with a fake bomb strapped to their chest and then argue with the judge about it not being a real explosive, be my guest.  Just don't do it with an airsoft gun or knowingly violate the law while acting as a member of this community.  It's a real quick way to find yourself outside of any local organized communities I assure you.

Good luck with the new area!  Authorized or unmarked private property, county land, or BLM is the way to go.

[PhoenixShadowCompany]

Oh yes, it absolutely is true. I've defended multiple people charged with "Armed Robbery, a Dangerous Offense" because they robbed somebody with a "BB" gun. The courts relied on the definition of expanding gas projectile to establish the "dangerous" element. Also, I know the guys at Gearbox well. They will not contradict me.

We were just down there today as well as Olddog halfbreed and some one from saguaro   Ron said he never said gas airsoft guns are considered firearms and that you were wrong about saying they were

[Huckleberry]

Believe what you wish, I gave you the legal definition from the 2003,  ARS book  have at home, my current one is at the office. ARS13_105 subsection 17. I did a trial last year in Superior Court, where this was an element, and the poor kid was innocent. If you want to get your legal advice from shopkeepers, security gaurds, and baseball coaches, be my guest. You can get them to come argue your case. The judge and the DCA will enjoy it.

You can lead a horse to water... I'm not wasting any more of my time with this.

[PhoenixShadowCompany]

Believe what you wish, I gave you the legal definition from the 2003,  ARS book  have at home, my current one is at the office. If you want to get your legal advice from shopkeepers, security gaurds, and baseball coaches, be my guest. You can get them to come argue your case. The judge and the DCA will enjoy it.

You can lead a horse to water...

So your taking back your statement from before about Ron agreeing i take it     last i checked Fresnel quoted it also Ron pulled up all the laws up today

Edit.....  the law on expanding gas only implies if the expansion is cause by ignition and or a chemical reaction