Author Topic:  (Read 1846 times)

Offline thatoneguy92088

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant First Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 301
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« on: March 16, 2004, 08:51:19 PM »
Well .20 and .25 id the weight of the BB in grams. (Am I right?) The advantage of .20 is that they will shoot farther, but could be affected by foliage and by wind more that the .25 bbs. THe .25 bbs are heavier so they won't go as far, but won't stra as much. At least that is what I understand about them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by thatoneguy92088 »

Offline Harley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2004, 08:24:26 AM »
Correct, the heavier the BB the better pentration through folage you have, but sacrifice some range as well.  .25's are a good weight to use.  Going by a specific formula if your AEG chrono's at 400fps with .20 BB's, then you should be averaging 358fps with .25's.  So you still have some decent velocity along with the good penetration factor.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
\"Just because you\'re paranoid, doesn\'t mean they\'re not out to get you!\"

\"Have Gun - Will Travel\"

Offline Farslayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2103
    • View Profile
    • http://www.amsog.com
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2004, 09:28:44 AM »
For example, an upgraded sniper rifle often has better results with the heaviest of BB's, the .43g.  Since accuracy is more critical when sniping than FPS, the heavier BB yeilds a higher percentage of one shot kills.  The heavier weight of the BB is compensated by upgrades, leaving only the positive of a more flat trajectory and less variablity due to environmental conditions and things like twigs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline ak47freak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Private
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2004, 10:34:46 AM »
Can you restate that in layman terms
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by ak47freak »
Ak-47 Freak

Nothing is better than a soldier and his Ak-47.

Offline Farslayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2103
    • View Profile
    • http://www.amsog.com
(No subject)
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2004, 11:22:07 AM »
Heavier BB's hurt.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline RickEJ6

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • First Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 473
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2004, 11:34:48 AM »
From what I have heard, accuracy relies very little on the weight of the BB, but more on the quality.  The .43 gram BBs have a LARGE difference in radius of each individually sampled BB.  The Grandmaster and super grandmaster BBs, though .29 grams, are the best sniper round, due to their small variance in size which allows for the exact same point of impact from shot to shot. Rick
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by RickEJ6 »
\"Do not hit if it can be avoided, but never hit softly.\"

T. Roosevelt

Offline Mr. Joseph

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sergeant Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2004, 11:42:56 AM »
Rick, Ihave never heard that, in fact the STRAIGHT .43g bbs are mad very well.  Some guns cant use .29 grandmaster bbs.  The .43 was the best bb I could use in my M700
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Mr. Joseph »

Offline Harley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2004, 11:50:45 AM »
Heavier BB's just like heavier bullets in real guns can be more accurate due to being less susceptible to wind diviations.  Quality of the BB's is also a large factor just like in bullets, a malformed BB will not spin properly which will cause it to be off target.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
\"Just because you\'re paranoid, doesn\'t mean they\'re not out to get you!\"

\"Have Gun - Will Travel\"

Offline Farslayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2103
    • View Profile
    • http://www.amsog.com
(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2004, 12:05:21 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by RickEJ6</i>
<br />From what I have heard, accuracy relies very little on the weight of the BB, but more on the quality.  The .43 gram BBs have a LARGE difference in radius of each individually sampled BB.  The Grandmaster and super grandmaster BBs, though .29 grams, are the best sniper round, due to their small variance in size which allows for the exact same point of impact from shot to shot. Rick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hmmm... I'm sure BB uniformity has something to do with the consistancy of flight in an "aerodynamic" kind of way.  However, that would be always the case in the event we skirmished in a vacuum, and we do not.  Crosswinds, twigs, environment (temp, humidity), inconsistancies in springs and gas pressure (basically everything that effects real steel projectiles)can altar BB flight.  Couple that with the fact that BB's are ROUND doesn't help.  Also, since we are talking sniper rilfes, all versions do not have an adjustable hop-up.  Paco pointed out to me very early on that the APS2-SV has a fixed hop up for .29g's, but .43g's fly very straigt with them.  Just food for thought.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Farslayer »
Benn

Offline Harley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Major General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2004, 03:53:49 AM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by RickEJ6</i>
<br />From what I have heard, accuracy relies very little on the weight of the BB, but more on the quality.  The .43 gram BBs have a LARGE difference in radius of each individually sampled BB.  The Grandmaster and super grandmaster BBs, though .29 grams, are the best sniper round, due to their small variance in size which allows for the exact same point of impact from shot to shot. Rick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Taking that you've found variances in BB diameter I would bet that you woas, it is extremely time consuming and pointless when 99% of the stuff can go unmoderated. Also, it is even more useless for him to babysit when the group of mods is a carefully chosen group that is chosen specifically for their trustworthiness and experience.  As such, Paco knows that each of us is doing our darnedest to moderate what we view individually as innappropriate or needing moderation.  Again, 99% of the time, those individual judgment calls mesh together perfectly and there is no need for any discussion or oversight.  This happened to fall a little more into that 1%.  Paco and Harley (assuming he's the one of whom you speak) are both great guys and great friends and anything that appears as "clique" behavior is actually coincidence that we've been around pretty much since Paco started it all and are good friends to boot.  We don't always agree, but we have formed certain bonds of loyalty/trust that exceed that present in a lot of day to day relationships.  I think that once you get to know us a little better you will feel honored to introduce your son to the camaraderie and loyalty that we embody.  Don't let one little thing like this spoil your perception of what many other airsoft groups from around the country have taken note of and come to view us as the standard for: our sportsmanship, honesty and loyalty.

As for Paco personally, he expressed his role in it: he doesn't know matt and he didn't see the comment you made that got deleted.  But, like I mentioned before, he trusts Harley and will support HIM for his decision.  Of course, like Harley stated, if Paco found one of us to be repeatedly making decisions he didn't agree with (or if forumers brought it up as a concern, which, as surprising as it may sound, everyone does have a voice) he can always replace us.  But to even suggest that for one minor deletion is silly. And as far as "obnoxious moderators initiating a conversation with me in a profane and insulting manner and then see them receive the support of the site's admin" goes, I don't see any evidence of any mods being obnoxious, profane or insulting, unless you refer to some conversation that took place elsewhere. The only three things that happened were: your post was deleted, Paco mentioned what you stated yourself about your reputation on other airsoft boards (of which, your mentioning in itself implies you already saw something potentially inappropriate or out of place in your remarks), and Harley replied about why your post was deleted in a very civil fashion.  

As for Harley's deletion of your post:
I saw your post and did not find it offensive and I took it as humorous.  But, as we have dealt with a number of times, oftentimes it is hard to tell what emphasis or subtle meanings are meant (when a reply is typed) during the reading of the reply. The best I can gather is that Harley misunderstood the intention or humor of your post and saw it more as a flame, or, he had other reasons based on his friendship with Matt. (Assuming big time here... ask Harely for further clarification privately if you need it).  I personally think it wasn't a big deal and that anybody should be able to handle such a remark, but I support Harley even though I don't agree that it should have been deleted.  Opinions are opinions and for the most part should be discussed in a civil manner. Bottom line is this: the deletion was of one small post, I'm sure a few people chuckled at it, but it's not really worth getting into a big discussion over.  If you get to know Harley a little better and he gets to know your sense of humor, things like this can be completely avoided.  It's a misunderstanding, no need to blow it out of proportion.

As far as Matt's post and threats in general:
I can't say definitively if it was meant as threat, like I said, I don't know Matt.  Again, possibly a misunderstanding.  If indeed anyone is offering threats of any kind whether in a public forum area or in an e-mail or private message I will do everything in my power to get such a person (depending on severity, first warned, and then) promptly banned from the forums and AA events.  I too do not want to be playing with anyone who tries to act as a bully or threaten people and so far, there have been no concerns of personal safety at ANY AA events.  The last guy that did offer threats on the forums was banned within a day or two of doing so, but they were also very flagrantly threats and made more than once.  From my viewpoint which I'm sure you can gather from my posts in that thread, his post to you is not definitively a threat or simply an offer to explain himself a little better to you.  If indeed it did make you feel threatened, ask Matt for clarification privately and then let one of us know.  But, my best suggestion is this: regardless of his opinions, peoples' opinions of him, his posts to you, me or anyone else, he's leaving airsoft and most likely these boards, so don't waste any more time thinking about him or the possibility of meeting him at one of our events, whether you view that as a good or bad thing.

I don't have any problem with you personally, though I think your assessment of the admin and fellow moderators who also happen to be my friends was a little rash.  Spend some time getting to know us and I'm sure you'll find we're much more agreeable than ASCII characters can portray and as good of friends as you can find anywhere, but until then expect to be viewed as an outsider.  For those that are actually in the group and know eachother, each post communicates with it all personal experience with the poster, allowing you to take it with a grain of salt, humor or whatever. For someone new to the group and (correct me if I'm wrong) never having met any of us, a lot of that behind the scenes stuff is lost and can only be gained through spending time on or off the field in person.  With the increasing reliance on electronic representations of thoughts and speech, it is increasingly hard to see emotions and the subtler aspects of human communication without first making the connection in person and getting a more complete idea of each person's personality.  So, I hope you don't harbor any hard feelings.  Let this drop like the misunderstanding it was and you'll get to know the great group of guys (and gals) behind the posts and spend some time with possibly the greatest group of airsofters in the country.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
\"Just because you\'re paranoid, doesn\'t mean they\'re not out to get you!\"

\"Have Gun - Will Travel\"

Offline ak47freak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Private
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
.20 & .25 ammo
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2004, 08:38:42 PM »
WHat the differece between .20 & .25 and what are the + and =- of both
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by ak47freak »
Ak-47 Freak

Nothing is better than a soldier and his Ak-47.