player built

[Wolf Bane]

Donations? Technically that wouldn't be a business. I know nothing about the legal ramifications, so feel free to educate me. I suppose if there's a certain donation target, a game could be played. I assume some form of non profit paperwork may be needed. Perhaps if it was under an airsoft association with the intended purpose of uniting the community or pick some bs political subject like helping people enjoy airsoft and keeping them healthy and from illegal habits?

I'm sure I'm just kicking a dead horse but it was something that popped in my head.

[weekendwarrior6mm]

Wow. I was kindof expecting this tho. To be honest im just going to to probably have free games to get the place off the ground till i can aquire the proper legality garbage taken care of. The agge reason is because i had a private field before i moved here and i had problems over the yungins. If enough people could convince me it would be fine to have younger than fifteen play...im not going to argue with majority. One way or another this will happen. But i do need help. Im open to all and any advice. Im going to need refs i have to set up insurance and buisness licences before i could legally start charging money. So once we can do a build theres gonna be some freebies. Besides...i just want to play and vanguard can be a hassle smetimes

[BK]

Really, are ya? Really?

Hah! I meant I'm surprised one of the older guys on this forum haven't descended upon this thread to crush hopes and dreams... 

Wasn't trying to be a dick (except in that last post ), but when you start charging money to play at a place, it changes a lot of rules. It's not an informal get together (like the pick up games at SASCO or Four Peaks), it becomes a business. All the laws start to apply. Licenses, insurance, and inspections will be needed.

WW6mm, if you're planning on having this move forward, you're gonna have to take care of this and play by the rules or you could be looking at fines and lawsuits if someone is injured on the property. Unless you have a lawyer draft up a waiver (and keep him on retainer), any halfway competent lawyer will shred through a homemade wavier and sue ya for all you're worth.

Permanent structures require licensing, inspection, and professional construction by competent builders. That's hard to do with donated materials and the crew of 14-18 year old kiddos you've had volunteer up til now (who I'm darn sure have little to no actual construction experience outside of a tree house or "bunkers" at Fuji). Semi-permanent structures need to pretty solid too. If one of them collapses when someone is inside, that's a pretty bad deal.

Speaking of such, insurance is gonna be out of sight. You ever wonder why Tempe Paintball is $26.50 or Vanguard is whatever insane price they are? It's not cause they're greedy and trying to screw you over (well, maybe Vanguard is). Insurance eats up a huge amount of money. You're gonna need to figure all this out if you're going to do everything kosher (i.e. a business plan). I'm not an economist or business man myself, just using a bit of common sense and common knowledge.

TL;DR: You're doing it wrong. Unless you're going to do everything by the book, you're asking for trouble. You owe it both to yourself and the people that would be playing at the field to do this the right way and safely. That's going to take money, though.

Edit: completely forgot, there's also personal liability, since WW6mm owns the land. If anyone gets hurt on the land and he can be determined to be at fault, he's liable. Ain't the law grand?

This is why we cant have nice things. I say to hell with the law, make everyone sign a waiver stating they assume all personal liabilities by playing on the field, and free admission.

[birdman]

The only thing I have to say is that if you have free games then change to paid games your field better be tits, if you expect people to continue coming back.

[Bob Z Moose]

Really, are ya? Really?

Hah! I meant I'm surprised one of the older guys on this forum haven't descended upon this thread to crush hopes and dreams... 

Wasn't trying to be a dick (except in that last post ), but when you start charging money to play at a place, it changes a lot of rules. It's not an informal get together (like the pick up games at SASCO or Four Peaks), it becomes a business. All the laws start to apply. Licenses, insurance, and inspections will be needed.

WW6mm, if you're planning on having this move forward, you're gonna have to take care of this and play by the rules or you could be looking at fines and lawsuits if someone is injured on the property. Unless you have a lawyer draft up a waiver (and keep him on retainer), any halfway competent lawyer will shred through a homemade wavier and sue ya for all you're worth.

Permanent structures require licensing, inspection, and professional construction by competent builders. That's hard to do with donated materials and the crew of 14-18 year old kiddos you've had volunteer up til now (who I'm darn sure have little to no actual construction experience outside of a tree house or "bunkers" at Fuji). Semi-permanent structures need to pretty solid too. If one of them collapses when someone is inside, that's a pretty bad deal.

Speaking of such, insurance is gonna be out of sight. You ever wonder why Tempe Paintball is $26.50 or Vanguard is whatever insane price they are? It's not cause they're greedy and trying to screw you over (well, maybe Vanguard is). Insurance eats up a huge amount of money. You're gonna need to figure all this out if you're going to do everything kosher (i.e. a business plan). I'm not an economist or business man myself, just using a bit of common sense and common knowledge.

TL;DR: You're doing it wrong. Unless you're going to do everything by the book, you're asking for trouble. You owe it both to yourself and the people that would be playing at the field to do this the right way and safely. That's going to take money, though.

Edit: completely forgot, there's also personal liability, since WW6mm owns the land. If anyone gets hurt on the land and he can be determined to be at fault, he's liable. Ain't the law grand?

This is why we cant have nice things. I say to hell with the law, make everyone sign a waiver stating they assume all personal liabilities by playing on the field, and free admission.

Correction: this is why WW6mm continues to have nice things. I'm sure if you're the one injured, you won't sue, even when you couldn't work and your house/ apartment/car is threatened by foreclosure/eviction/repossession, right? God help us all if a minor gets hurt out there. News people love stories about kids getting hurt.

Better have a damn good waiver, cause every last bit of this situation screams civil suit.

[BK]

Yeah i know everyone wants to get their million dollar settlement checks because their being a dumbass and did something they shouldnt have done.

[Julian]

don't register it as a business or something right now.

don't let minors in at all. not until you have extremely solid waivers written up.

in my OPINION, if you want this to really get off the ground, just draft up a very basic "you can't sue me if you get hurt here" waiver (google can probably help with this) and have a few free build-and-shoot days here and there.

take baby steps.  if you invite everyone and anyone, ask them for money, and don't have any sort of waiver, you're gonna get a few rotten eggs and potential misfortunes.

keep it simple

[Bob Z Moose]

So, I'm guessing everyone either didn't see or didn't read my post in its entirety. Simple put LIABILITY LAW STILL APPLIES. IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY, WHICH MAKE WW6mm LIABLE. PERIOD.

As I said, unless WW6mm gets the waiver setup by a lawyer (which costs money), a legal secretary could rip through it in a matter of minutes. Don't be silly people. Do it if you want to. It's not my ass on the line.

[ssgt. rodriguez]

Hello sir I saw your post and I would like to say congratulations on acquiring that land and for understanding what players are looking for "having fun doing a sport we all like". I would like to help you with the build if you would like, I have prior service in the military and can help with any other tactical or logistical support you might need. I hope that your field becomes a hit with all of us and hope to hear from you soon, thank you and you have my full support!

[Warlord]

Hello sir I saw your post and I would like to say congratulations on acquiring that land and for understanding what players are looking for "having fun doing a sport we all like". I would like to help you with the build if you would like, I have prior service in the military and can help with any other tactical or logistical support you might need. I hope that your field becomes a hit with all of us and hope to hear from you soon, thank you and you have my full support!

Well said! I second that.

[hautala88]

This sounds awesome, can't wait to see some photos of the progress.