[gixser13]

You have to break a few eggs to make an omlet......

[Paco]

[V]

and since I'll be gone all day at a Microsoft seminar, let me fend off what (inevitably) leadmagnet or leaking pen will say about nuking them ("all those innocent civilians") by saying this:

The CIVILIANS of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; men women and children, were not "at war" with us either, were they?  Were their children bayonetting our POWs for practice???   Were their old men and women wearing military uniforms and getting ready to strike against Los Angeles???  The innocent civilians of Hiroshima were NOT responsible for the acts of war being conducted by their unelected military generals or their unelected "sun god" Emperor!  Yet we annhilated them anyway - for one reason only - to crush the will of the Japanese military and Emperor.  That's what we we are getting very close to needing to do with this mess in Iraq.  [!][V]

[Farslayer]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ruiner</i>
<br />also, in regards to the media... i have msnbc.com as my homepage for whatever ****ing reason.  I was pissed yesterday that this story was only their subheading, and not their main story on the front page.  So i get to work today.. load it up.. and my o my, it NOT EVEN ON THE ****ING FRONT PAGE!!!!!!!  but what is?   more prisoner photos and how officials are goign to get to see them today.  **** THE MEDIA, and **** ISLAM!!!!!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Where's the f'ing outrage?  I don't hear the Red Cross now?  Has any of the Arab nations openly condemned this brutal execution of an innocent American civillian?  
I think we need to look up the definitions of the words "mistreatment" (which during war time is a murky subject) and "atrocity".
What every major newspaper in America should do is to print, side by side, the pictures of an a war prisoner with a bag over his head right next to the ass holding up Berg's head.  Let's get some perspective.
War IS NOT politically correct.

[HavHav]

leakingpen, it is not a few thugs. Each and every one of them would stop at nothing to do this again. There was 6 or something American soldiers who couldnt handle the pressure, wanted payback, whatever. A few thugs? Ha. I dont know the numbers, but they are doing exactly what the rest want to. I say nuke the country, save some american lives, whatever. We are just trying to help out the world, but whenever we try to do anything good, they throw it back in our face. The french have money invested in oil, same with germany. We have saved frances ass many times. (No offense to Matt [FFL]) I'm not particularily fond of them.

[Giland]

Japan was unique and we dropped to bombs becuase it would save more lives to do it than it cost to nuke them. Also, we are still paying them for it. In Japan, the war was pretty much over, we won. The military wouldn't give up though, and the Emperor couldn't or he would lose face and possibly be overthrown by the military. The civilian leadership discussed it with the Emperor and they needed a way for him to keep face. The bomb did that. Lots of military officers killed themselves after the bomb.

Now, on to Iraq. Who didn't know there was extremists over there before we invaded, liberated, whatever politically correct turn is in vogue now? This was their (the extremists) excuse to do something they would gladly have done anyway.
Saying "nuke iraq" to stop terrorism is about as dumb as saying "nuke columbia" to stop the drug trade. Iraq is the front line today, but by no means the only country with extremists. The extremists don't like us, no ****. Who needed que cards for that one? Most of the people of Iraq like us there, and welcome us there, but the only thing making the news is the deaths of soldiers. The extremists don't want our ideas there because then they lose power. They control the population through their religion. If people started getting more individual ideals the clerics and extremists lose their power.
We have to show them we are not the devils we are made out to be. We have to show them we respect their heritage. Fighting a war is not just about fighting an enemy, but about getting the civilian population on your side. The prison abuse hurt that.

In regards to the difference between the prison and the beheading, think of it this way.
We hold ourselves to a higher standard than muslim extremists. When we do something wrong, we feel betrayed by those who performed the deed. When a muslim extremists does something wrong, he is crazy, so how could we expect less from such as that?

My suggestion? triple the number of soldiers in Iraq. Hunt down extremists like dogs, turn them over to the authorities, then watch the trials. Will some be freed, sure, but to garish our support, many will be put to death. Being hunted and killed by their own is much sweeter than being hunted and killed by the US. Of course, I am sure they would just blame it on a puppet government, but we aren't trying to change the mind of the extremists, but the general population.

[Harley]

Here's the video clip of the Chechian's (I previously said it was the Afganis) cutting off the head of a Russian soldier.  Again, muslum's in action.

Warning:  This is even more graphic than the one Paco posted!!!

http://www.users.qwest.net/~smashed/chechclear.asf

[leakingpen]

whoah whoah, first off, stop attributing to me what others say.  i may agree with what they say, but dont attribute it to me.

first thing first, yes, theres some passages in the qu'ran that advocates killing infidels.  theres also a lot of passages in the old testament that says the same.  try reading the psalm that begins " by the rivers of babylon".  i think its number 60 something, not sure.

and yeah, i sympathize with the iraqis.  doesnt make me unamerican.  makes me HUMAN.  somehting those that can suggest killing masses of people seem to me not to be.  seriously, do what i suggested.  put yourself in the iraqis place, and imagine how you would react.  if you cant do that, then dont speak to me, as you havent the right.

[Harley]

No one here can imagine what it's like to be living in Iraq unless you've been there and done that.  I was born an American, brought up with American values and think like an American.  So to tell someone to put yourself in their place doesn't work.  You can imagine all you want, but it's not the same thing.  Ask any soldier how he/she would thinks they would act if they were a POW?  I can guarantee you that 99% of them act differently than they imagined they would.

I sympathize with anyone who lives under a dictator and would like to get out.  I don't sympathize with the rest.

[yellowmonkey]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Harley</i>
<br />No one here can imagine what it's like to be living in Iraq unless you've been there and done that.  I was born an American, brought up with American values and think like an American.  So to tell someone to put yourself in their place doesn't work.  You can imagine all you want, but it's not the same thing.  Ask any soldier how he/she would thinks they would act if they were a POW?  I can guarantee you that 99% of them act differently than they imagined they would.

I sympathize with anyone who lives under a dictator and would like to get out.  I don't sympathize with the rest.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I totally agree with Harley here. To some extent we must be sympathetic towards these people for what they have and are enduring; however there becomes a time in which a society becomes so corrupted with "bad" values that it needs to be dealt with in a harsh way.
It would be better in the end for the surviving people to start a new society, than it would be to live in the terrible one they do now.
Or maybe it would just turn into a big hornets nest and come back and bite the US in the butt. I don't rightly know, but I doubt we would nuke them anyway.

[falconflyer11]

alright sometimes i try to think of a way to see the other side, now i am not anti-american at all i love america and wanna kill every iraq b*****d, but if someone invaded our land took our leader, even if we didnt like him, so lets say, bush, i can guarantee that we would be doing everything in our power to defend our nation. maybe not this extreme,but def, some type of uprising.

but since i am an american. lets nuke the hell outta them

[gixser13]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Gixser, do you really believe that we should now exterminate millions of men, women and children?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its not up to me to decide but god has done it in the past.... look at Sodom, Gomorrha, Adama, and Seboin were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven" (Gen., xiii, 13; xviii, 20; xix, 24, 29; Osee, xi, .
God is watching.......

[kopper]

After just now reading this thread for the first time, it seems like most of us are quite outraged about what happened to that civilian. Instead of arguing about it here, is there anything that we can do to really voice our opinion to our government? Write letters? Start a petition? Join the military?

It just seems that a lot of you guys are extrememely educated about this war and everything that is happening, and could do a lot more than just argue about it here.

[falconflyer11]

joining military after i graduate from college, i wanna be an officer(pref an air force pilot)

[gixser13]

We need to load up a few ships with some Good O Boys and goto Iraq.  Not as soldiers, As Americans
they come to us by the boat loads. why cant we do the same.......

[falconflyer11]

here is some about world reaction

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/ ... index.html