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Offline delta_echo

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« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2004, 02:10:38 PM »
WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND OUR RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).

"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms …To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms . . . " Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters From the Federal Farmer 53 (1788).

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater … confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and punishment (1764).

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property . . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War (1775).

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution (1776).

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." Noah Webster, An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution Proposed BV the Late Convention (1787).

"Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation." James Madison.

"…The said Constitution be never construed …to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams, during Massachusetts's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)

"Suppose that we let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal: still it would not be going to far to say that the State governments with the people at their side would be able to repel the danger...half a million citizens with arms in their hands" --James Madison, The Federalist Papers

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. [Note: This sentence was often quoted in the Revolutionary period. It occurs even so early as November, 1755, in an answer by the Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor, and forms the motto of Franklin's "Historical Review," 1759, appearing also in the body of the work.--Frothingham: Rise of the Republic of the United States, p. 413. ]

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crime."--Cesare Beccaria, quoted by Thomas Jefferson

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States....Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America" -- Gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."--Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at p. 750, August 17, 1789.

"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." --James Madison, The Federalist Papers No. 46 at 243-244.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States"--Noah Webster in "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution," 1787, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at p. 56 (New York, 1888).

"...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." --Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist No. 29.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. --Thomas Jefferson
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by delta_echo »

Offline Greg

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« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2004, 03:15:29 PM »
Great post, delta. That post could single-handedly destroy so many anti-gun arguements.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
-Greg of Christian\'s Team


Offline gixser13

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« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2004, 03:26:45 PM »
NOW SEE WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by gixser13 »

Offline Animal Mother

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« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2004, 07:18:23 PM »
I live in California. Well, it appears that .50 calibers aren't banned yet. I went to a gun show a few weeks ago and they were selling .50 caliber sniper rifles with a big banner that said, buy a .50 caliber before Kalifornia bans them! That website is probably Democrat propaganda.

Anyways. Just thought I'd let you guys know. I'm not mad or anyhting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Animal Mother »

Offline Greg

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« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2004, 11:10:41 PM »
Good to know in case I ever have to move back to enemy territory [;)]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Greg »
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Offline Animal Mother

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« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2004, 12:10:35 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sNiPeRWoLf88</i>
<br />Ah, the dreams (not the mention the articles I have read and reports I have read)of the Barrett Light Fifty I have had.  Such an damn good looking rifle ('cept the M21 wins in my book).

I hear the recoil of of the bolt actions are enough to make your shoulder hurt after a few shots.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lol. A shotgun can make your shoulder hurt after a few shots.[:D]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Animal Mother »

Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2004, 12:10:18 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Animal Mother</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sNiPeRWoLf88</i>
<br />Ah, the dreams (not the mention the articles I have read and reports I have read)of the Barrett Light Fifty I have had.  Such an damn good looking rifle ('cept the M21 wins in my book).

I hear the recoil of of the bolt actions are enough to make your shoulder hurt after a few shots.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lol. A shotgun can make your shoulder hurt after a few shots.[:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Nothing like your wrist on a pistol grip with a twelve gauge with the stock collapsed.  It's pretty handy in close quarters, but dang...

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline gixser13

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Kalifornia Leads Nation in War on Terror—BAN 50caL
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2004, 12:08:38 PM »
What a crook of ****,

I wish Califona would fall into the ocean!!!


Dear Violence Policy Center Action Network Member:

And now for some goods news--California leads the war on terror by banning 50 caliber sniper rifles!  Thank you for helping pass this first-in-the-nation law!
 
On the same day that President Bush and Congress allowed the federal assault weapons ban to expire, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law AB 50, a bill banning 50 caliber sniper rifles--weapons of war that can penetrate armor plating, destroy aircraft, and pierce fuel tanks and tank cars.  Click here to read the VPC press release: http://www.vpc.org/press/0409AB50.htm
 
The action comes less than three years after the Violence Policy Center first identified the threat posed by these weapons with its study, Voting From the Rooftops:  How the U.S. Gun Industry Armed Osama bin Laden, Other Foreign and Domestic Terrorists, and Common Criminals With 50 Caliber Sniper Rifles.  See this study and other VPC studies on the threat posed by these weapons at http://www.vpc.org.
 
Please e-mail Governor Schwarzenegger and thank him for signing this important piece of legislation into law.  He can be reached at:  http://www.govmail.ca.gov
 
This is a prime example of national and state advocates working together to pass effective laws--even when our federal policymakers refuse to take action.  We look forward to other states following California's lead on both 50 caliber sniper rifles and assault weapons.
 
Thank you again for being part of this victory
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by gixser13 »

Offline busta_cap

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« Reply #83 on: March 19, 2005, 08:32:22 PM »
I really enjoyed reading this discussion full and in its proper text form. I agree and disagree with so many opinions I am not going to start debating, althought I think this should be brought back to live, hell,why not?

I found some info about the longest recorded sniper kill but I thought I remembered reading about our good ol buddy Carlos Hathcock making a 2500yd kill with a .50... Not much difference(only a few hundred yds)but those are some damn good kills. I wonder what kind of conditions the Canadian team.

quote: The longest-ever confirmed sniper kill was made by Master Cpl. Arron Perry of the Canadian Armed Forces in Afghanistan during combat in 2003. Using a .50-caliber MacMillan TAC-50 rifle, Perry shot and killed an Afghan soldier from a distance of 2,430 meters. :end quote
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by busta_cap »

Offline azsarge

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« Reply #84 on: March 19, 2005, 09:23:32 PM »
You brought this topic back to let us know you're good at internet searches?

Good Job!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by azsarge »

Offline stoneaglewolf

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« Reply #85 on: March 19, 2005, 10:52:31 PM »
Anti-gun groups and Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) are making far-fetched claims about crimes they believe might be committed with .50 caliber rifles.1 Urged on by such speculations, CBS and CNN recently aired unbalanced, irresponsible stories portraying the rifles as "too dangerous to be in the hands of private citizens" and "a clear and present danger to the public safety."2 Instead, the facts are:

.50 caliber rifles have existed since the 1860s. Those that use modern .50 cal. ammunition have existed for a half century. Those that anti-gunners attack now have existed since the 1980s.

.50 caliber rifles are virtually unheard of in crime. Modern .50 caliber rifles are too large, heavy, and expensive for most criminals. They generally measure 4-5 feet in length, weigh between 22-34 pounds, and cost thousands of dollars. The VPC has identified only two crimes in the U.S. since 1992 in which a .50 caliber rifle was fired.

Most .50 caliber owners use their rifles for long-range target shooting competitions. Long-range matches have been common for more than a century. For 20 years, the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association has been the nation`s leading exponent of .50 caliber marksmanship competitions.
Modern .50 caliber rifle ammunition was invented in the 1920s. Despite anti-gunners` claims, Mk211 .50 cal. rounds are not available to the public, but are restricted to military use only.

The use of modern .50 caliber rifles by private citizens has played a key role in developing the rifles for subsequent military use. Most rifles, pistols, and shotguns used by today`s military were first used by civilians. Civilians have owned most of the same firearms as the military throughout America`s history. Under federal law, civilians have comprised the Militia of the U.S. since 1792, and federal law has encouraged civilian ownership of military firearms since 1905.

Anti-gunners are just trying to manufacture an issue to rejuvenate their gun-banning agenda, which collapsed last year when Congress allowed the Clinton Gun Ban to expire, after independent studies for Congress showed that the ban had been a mistake.3 The Congressional Research Service`s report also exposed anti-gun groups` false claims about the ban.4 Ultimately, anti-gunners always want to ban somethingÃ￾all handguns, small handguns, semi-auto rifles, pump-action shotguns, .50 cal. rifles, or varmint-caliber pistols. But whatever the gun, anti-gunners` rhetoric is always the same.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by stoneaglewolf »
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Offline stoneaglewolf

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« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2005, 10:55:08 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by stoneaglewolf »
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Offline HavHav

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« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2005, 10:55:47 PM »
Anyway you can get ahold of what crimes exactly were commited with the .50 cal? I'd be interested to see.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by HavHav »

Offline dekul

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« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2005, 01:51:00 AM »
Me too, what possible use could a criminal have for a .50 that couldnt be accomplished cheaper in some other way. People say it's because .50 is just designed to kill people? That's BS, it's an antimateriel round, 5.56, 7.62, .30-06  were designed to kill people. If they banned it based on that argument even in some small part then you can soon expect to see all your AR varients, AK's, C&R War rifles, and just about everything else be banned soon as well. You say there is no reason to own a .50? What if I want to kill a deer from 2000 meters? With the right permits you can buy a belt-fed automatic grenade launcher, so why the hell do .50's take the ban? Ugh, anti-gun assholes piss me off.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by dekul »

Offline KenCasper

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« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2005, 11:01:28 AM »
Quote
federal law has encouraged civilian ownership of military firearms since 1905.


Actually Mark there are records datin back further than that. There were laws in colonial times and right after the revolutionary war that REQUIRED able bodied men to have a fire arm in the house for possible call up as militia. In Conneticut there was actually legislation passed and last I heard still on the books that requires men between ages 17 and 35 to own a rifle (exact wording for the firearm I fail to remember) and if the Male can't afford one the STATE will supply one for them! Damn I'd like to have a weapon givin to me from the state :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
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