[Harley]

Sorry you feel that way Mike but it is what it is.  Unless you are personally willing to take responsiblity for any and all minors that attend one of our games then your opinion is mute.  When we first started we did allow minors to play without their parents sticking around during the games.  As time went by the majority felt unconfortable with taking the responsibility for these minors and felt that if their parents didn't have the time to stick around then we would try using sponsors for them.  That worked out for a while but it still put the brunt of the repsonsibility on the sponsor for what ever happen to the minor during the game.  I sponsored a couple guys myself and when they went their separate ways I chose to not sponsor anymore.  Paco can give you the specfics on why waivers are pretty much worthless when it comes to minors.

[Mr. Joseph]

Who thinks our great AA forums could get by without these kinds of posts?

Everyone is going to tell you the same thing.  If a 17 year old kid takes his goggles off and I shoot him in the eye resulting in complete loss of vision, I dont want to lose everything I have to his irate father and lawyer.  Nuff said

[gixser13]

I stand behind AA...IF you want to start a jr league the by all means feel free.
I seem to remember that there is also a waiver that you have to sign when you buy an airsoft gun (I guess it should be rewritten aswell !)
By attacking JT the way you just did and standing up for Soft Air  I would lead to believe that you work for Soft Dept...

By the Way JT some great deals never had a problem with any of items I bought from them unless your talking springers, which there just crap to begin with

[delta_echo]

Some kids are stupid. They have a right to be stupid - they're kids. None of us want to risk losing it all for that one stupid kid to play.

[Paco]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JJpuff</i>
<br />You have done very little for the sport and none of it is positive.  You think that your skewed views on life are always correct, and no matter what anyone says is wrong.  I am 28 years old, I've been into the sport of Airsoft for almost 6 years now.  I see so many kids today who are starting to love the game, and all you do is strike them down by not allowing them to play with you unless a parent sits out the entire time.  How can they develop and allow the sport to be played the way it should.  By your lawyers or whoever created this waiver, you not only force people under 18 to play in areas that are dangerous to the sport but also deny them the room to grow and understand safety meausures that need to be taken.  Too often are these kids being caught out playing in a field or an apartment complex, and it makes the sport look bad.  Have a waiver that allows a parent to leave, but during the time the minor is there, he/she cannot leave.  This way they are forced to stay and less chance of a bad name being tied to the game.  Also, I would like to make note, before assumptions are made, I have no ties with, nor will I ever, with Soft Air Depot.  And the same goes for Jungletoy.  JT is an outrageously priced dealer, and most of the time is faulty or not working at all.  Soft Air Depot, or SAD, never said any of the things you have, I think they are just too new for the sport.
-Mike-
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Since you don't clarify to WHOM you are directing your comments, I will assume that you mean to "AirsoftArizona" as an organization.

First off, I have no idea who "JJpuff" is.  Who are you?  Your comments make it sound as if you had a conversation with me.

How is AirsoftArizona "forc[ing] people under 18 to play in areas that are dangerous"??  AA's stance is simple:  if you are under 18 and don't have ACTIVE parental supervision & participation, <b>DO NOT PLAY <u>AT ALL</u></b>.  Someone under 18 who doesn't have the maturity or patience to wait until they are of age (18) to participate is not the type of person who should be involved in this sport anyway.

A minor (someone under 18) cannot enter into a contract, thus a waiver for a minor is worthless, regardless of who signs it, as Harley pointed out.

[HavHav]

Yes, we are stupid. We do think we are invincible, we think nobody can touch us, we think we are the best. You were the same way when you were a teen. I'm 16, I've definatly made mistakes. Its not like none of you [adults] on these boards have never done something stupid as a teenager. We dont have the vast life experience you guys do, nor do we have any of the responsibilities you do. Sorry that we dont just read books and stare at the wall and wear our pants above our asses and listen to soft white music.

[delta_echo]

HavHav, didn't mean to offend you or anyone else in any way. Never said all kids were stupid. I'm just talking about that one kid, and I think we all no one, who has no common sense. Its something that some gain faster than others. There is a reason for age limits on voting, owning firearms, drinking, etc. Like I said though, some are ready before others. My little brother is 15, and is as safe as any with a firearm. Thing is though, if the government were to make an exception and let him buy a rifle, they have to do it for everyone, including the stupid kid. On the same note, even though the drinking age is 21 I know some people who are so irresponsible they probably shouldn't be able to touch a drop until they're 35. I think that we all do stupid things regardless of age - what counts is what we learn from them and how it affects others. Hope that clears things up enough.

[PyroManiac]

ive nearly been suspended like 5 times this skool year, ive nearly blown/ burned my hands and/ or feet off at least 500 times and even im not stupid enough to take my goggles off during a game. even tho im sure that theres guys out there dumber than me they're usualy doing something that can ruin there life during their free time (like smoking pot and stuff of the sort) not playing a nice game of airsoft.
i kno this wont suddenly make you accept minors to official games, but just kno that for we arent as dumb as you guys think we dress (and beleive me we say the same thing about the way ya'll dress)

[Mr. Joseph]

If for some reason you did it one time, it could cost someone everything.

[Paco]

When are you guys going to understand that from here, it has NOTHING (let me repeat - NOTHING) to do with "maturity" or lack of it.  It has everything to do with LEGALITY.  Like it or not, regardless of how mature you are, in the eyes of the LAW, you are a minor until you turn 18.  If you don't like that, trying to ignore it will be counterproductive to the cause and only prove immaturity.  If you want it changed, write your legislators.

[Dust2Dust]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you want it changed, write your legislators.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">  I would, but that'd take too much time.  I think if you are under 18, and you dont have parental supervision you shouldn't be not allowed to play.  That is stupid.  But I think you should atleast play in safe areas where no one can see you, and so you dont accidentaly shoot someone.  But oh well.  My opinion is worth nothing on these forums.

[Paco]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dust2Dust</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you want it changed, write your legislators.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">  I would, but that'd take too much time.  I think if you are under 18, and you dont have parental supervision you shouldn't be not allowed to play.  That is stupid.  But I think you should atleast play in safe areas where no one can see you, and so you dont accidentaly shoot someone.  But oh well.  My opinion is worth nothing on these forums.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Do us a favor and read my post right above yours, over and over until you understand it.  You either (1) don't comprehend what it says, or (2) you don't want to accept it.

[The Flying Dutchman]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by HavHav</i>
<br />Yes, we are stupid.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I beg to differ my friend...I myself do not consider my self stupid. Your statment is stereotyping all minors.

[TriggerHappy]

It's caled CYA guys (cover your a55) and thats all they are doin,i know when your young with no responsibilities it's kinda hard to see that all they are doing is makin sure that they (A.A.and other organizationhs like them)are only doing it to protect themselves and make sure that as an organization they will still be there for your enjoyment when you do turn 18. I mean you guys do still want to have an A.A. around then to set up games and scenarios,right. It may not seem like much work and even though i have not attended a game yet i can tell you all that these guys who host games do an enormous amout of work and planning to make sure a good time is had by all so don't knock them around to hard guys.Just deal with the rules if you can't manage to drag your parents then just deal with it and remember that it will still be there in a year or two when you turn 18 and only because of the rules.

[Firehead]

First off, Where do you get off thinking JT is overpriced? They have some of the best prices available, that doesnt require international shipping. The only problem is, they dont sell their AEGs individually, only in a package. Now, to the point. I am 17, 18 in a month and a half, and i have attended 2 AA games over the last year, my dad also plays with me. I completely understand why they prefer minors not to play unless accompanied by an adult. I have seen several situations where a minor has done something extremely stupid(i soon corrected it for their sake). Hell one time at a non AA game, i actually almost forgot to put on my goggles(i did get to it before i entered the game). Now had i been extremely stupid, and forgot to put it on and has say...Harley shoot me in the face, and my parents freaked out, he would be in a world of trouble, all becuase of my stupidity. There is a method to their madness.