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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2004, 12:56:41 PM »
paco, lets ignore the old blow job arguement.  you believe he had them WHY?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline Ruiner

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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2004, 01:18:48 PM »
Frankly i couldnt give two ****s if tehy had WMD's or not.. never did care for that matter.  I was all for the war WELL BEFORE i heard any talk of WMD's.  Bush sr. should have gone into Baghdad a decade ago rather than backing out like a wuss and leaving the Iraqi people to be systematicaly destroyed.  Ive had some crazy insight into 1990's Iraq after talking many times to the woman i work with and her sister, who were both living in a Baghadad suburb during and after the first gulf war.  The job needed to be finished, and Saddam's insane actions tied together with his unwillingness to cooperate with the UN and other security services more than gave us the right to go in.  My opinion... yes... but thats all there is when it comes to things like this.  As for the WMD's... sure i think he had something... do i think he had an ICBM with a nuke on it?  nah not likely.

Its like all these folks goin on and on about how Kerry was in Vietnam, and how bush got out of it... SFW???  What OTHER issues are REALLY at stake.  When folks disagree with something, they insist on finding the ONE flaw in it.  Much like the War.. why is everyone hung up on WMD's???  I was under the impression that we decided to go to war with Iraq WELL before all the talk started up about weapons.  Maybe im wrong, but i remember the first i heard about possibly going to war with Iraq, was shortly after we entered Afganistan and well before the WMD crap started.  

I was wondering how long it was going to be before Leakingpen and Leadmagnet spoke up about this.... what is it with you guys?  You dont post about anything else on this board except politics, and whne you do its always the oposite of what everyone else here seems to think.  This is an airsoft board... why not talk about airsoft MORE than politics?  I know we all like to bs back and forth about the election and ****, but damn at least we post about other stuff too.

Again, this is not me arguing the WMD existance... im just saying that i dont care if they had em or not, in my OPINION we needed to enter Iraq anyways.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ruiner »
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Offline Paco

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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2004, 01:25:13 PM »
Well, as for the BJ - "BJ" = "Oral Sex" = "Sexual Relations", therefore "BJ" = "Sexual Relations".  Let's just call it for what it is.  Even Hillary would agree on that one.

I (along with all the vast majority of us) don't have the ability to know first-hand, so we have to take what 3rd parties say about it and come to our own conclusions.  Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors and wouldn't let them in for how many years?  He broke MANY stipulations of the 91 Gulf War cease-fire.  We KNOW that he has WMD's at one time because he actually USED them on the Kurds.  In the late 90's, you get almost ALL military leaders, politicians, etc that ALL say that Saddam has WMD's (the quotes from the above slideshow are *real* - I checked many of them and they are all correctly referenced quotes).  Now, given that, and given that he has not accounted for where they went, and he had no inspectors in the country for many years, he had "free reign" to move them, hide them, etc.  Do I think that there are CURRENTLY WMD's in Iraq?  Yeah, there probably are some in limited (or de-weaponized) quantities, but I think he had a LOT more, and I think that they are probably in Syria now.

However, as I've stated before, this is just a continuation of the 91 Gulf War, with some new objectives added.  Saddam broke the accords of his cease-fire agreement...  thus, according to the resolution the situation reverts back to its previous state, which was a state of war.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Paco »

Offline Ninja

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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2004, 01:51:18 PM »
I wasn't really too thrilled about going to war, but at this point, with Saddam being deposed and the new possibilities for the Iraqi people (I'm hopeful), I can say that at least something good came out of it.

The Kurdish people are completely thrilled to be free of Saddam. That, at least, gives me a warm fuzzy inside.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ninja »
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Offline yellowmonkey

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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2004, 01:56:42 PM »
Just got back to the boards and saw this post. Excellent link!
I love quotes.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paco</i>
However, as I've stated before, this is just a continuation of the 91 Gulf War, with some new objectives added. Saddam broke the accords of his cease-fire agreement... thus, according to the resolution the situation reverts back to its previous state, which was a state of war.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No kidding, why do so many people have a problem with finishing what was started? It's like the liberals want to turn this into another Vitnam. Pull out before we get anything done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by yellowmonkey »
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Offline leakingpen

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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2004, 02:01:28 PM »
ruiner, i post on other things, when i am involved.  i read all the threads, but dont kick in often, because ive only been to one game, and dont know anywhere near as much about the weaponry ect as others.  as for the politics, when i see ad hominem attacks and stuff posted thats WRONG, i spout up.  you would do the same if the situation were reversed, i think.  if you were on some hobby related board, and people started popping up slobbering over moores knob for f 9/11, would you speak up?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leakingpen »

Offline Ruiner

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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2004, 02:54:16 PM »
man.. if i had a $1 for every bum that has slobbered over moore in the past 4 months on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY boards i go to, I'd have about half of the money moore expects to make off his next 'movie'.  :P

Do i bother to get into debates with them?  Hell no.  Its not worth it with his many many Canadian followers (most sites i go to seem to have an odd number of Canadians on them, and they all love Moore in a very unatural way).  But in all honestly most of the political discussions here are tame and open to ideas... which is damn good and makes them easy to stomach.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Ruiner »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2004, 03:14:55 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ruiner</i>
<br />Frankly i couldnt give two ****s if tehy had WMD's or not.. never did care for that matter.  I was all for the war WELL BEFORE i heard any talk of WMD's.  Bush sr. should have gone into Baghdad a decade ago rather than backing out like a wuss and leaving the Iraqi people to be systematicaly destroyed.  Ive had some crazy insight into 1990's Iraq after talking many times to the woman i work with and her sister, who were both living in a Baghadad suburb during and after the first gulf war.  The job needed to be finished, and Saddam's insane actions tied together with his unwillingness to cooperate with the UN and other security services more than gave us the right to go in.  My opinion... yes... but thats all there is when it comes to things like this.  As for the WMD's... sure i think he had something... do i think he had an ICBM with a nuke on it?  nah not likely. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


I think the question as to whether or not Saddam had WMDs in the first place was bogus too.  With the technological developments we've been seeing over the last several years, such weapons will be and are available to almost any nation or organization that desires them.  It is one of those scary facts in life.  We currently cannot and will not be able to insure that the only nations that have them are nations that are politically aligned with us.  We simply are unable to control the spread of such technology in that regard to any real degree.  Our decisions to go to war MUST be based on the real world potential for us to achieve our goals.  It is pure folly to attempt otherwise.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Its like all these folks goin on and on about how Kerry was in Vietnam, and how bush got out of it... SFW???  What OTHER issues are REALLY at stake.  When folks disagree with something, they insist on finding the ONE flaw in it.  Much like the War.. why is everyone hung up on WMD's???  I was under the impression that we decided to go to war with Iraq WELL before all the talk started up about weapons.  Maybe im wrong, but i remember the first i heard about possibly going to war with Iraq, was shortly after we entered Afganistan and well before the WMD crap started. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

To maintain that I have only spoken out against Bush's hypocrisy towards Kerry's military service would be a tremendous understatement.  And you're right, the decisions to go to Afghanistan and Iraq were two separate issues.    

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I was wondering how long it was going to be before Leakingpen and Leadmagnet spoke up about this.... what is it with you guys?  You dont post about anything else on this board except politics, and whne you do its always the oposite of what everyone else here seems to think.  This is an airsoft board... why not talk about airsoft MORE than politics?  I know we all like to bs back and forth about the election and ****, but damn at least we post about other stuff too. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I try to contribute in any way I can to our community.   I honestly get the impression that you are more concerned with the fact that my politics are different than yours than whether or not my other contributions are airsoft related.   And you're correct that I am often not in the majority opinion in this community.  Should that matter?  Should conformity to specific political positions be a requirement in a community such as ours that is primarily focused on what could be interpreted as being paramilitary training?

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2004, 03:26:46 PM »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ruiner</i>
<br />man.. if i had a $1 for every bum that has slobbered over moore in the past 4 months on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY boards i go to, I'd have about half of the money moore expects to make off his next 'movie'.  :P

Do i bother to get into debates with them?  Hell no.  Its not worth it with his many many Canadian followers (most sites i go to seem to have an odd number of Canadians on them, and they all love Moore in a very unatural way).  But in all honestly most of the political discussions here are tame and open to ideas... which is damn good and makes them easy to stomach.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If you are going to refer to those who disagree with you as bums, Canadian followers, and unnatural lovers you cannot also consider yourself to be responding in an manner open to ideas or in a way conducive to digestion.

I won't take such comments personally if you promise not to either.

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline Harley

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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2004, 01:18:13 PM »
Where Bush Got His Marching Orders
 
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
 
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
clear.  We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons
of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
 
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great
deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the
greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
 
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
 
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom
Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry ( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998
 
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 "San Fran Nan"
 
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies.."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
 
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In
addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless
using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range
missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others, December 5, 2001
 
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
 
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
 
 
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam
is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
 
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
 
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
 
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because
I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his
hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F.. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
 
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
 
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
This he has refused to do."
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
 
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapon stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including
al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam
Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
 
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
 
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
 
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation .. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass
destruction is real."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
 
 
SO NOW THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER
WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND THAT HE TOOK US TO WAR
UNNECESSARILY !
 
TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PRESIDENT LEADING US TO WAR.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline leadmagnet

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« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2004, 02:44:04 PM »
Are you telling us that Georgie isn't able to think for himself, Harley?

Lead
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by leadmagnet »

Offline Harley

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« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2004, 03:32:23 PM »
Now you're just being ignorant lead.  If it was Clinton, Gore or even Kerry would you say the same thing?  The president can only go on the information that is given to him.  And from the looks of it there were many who are throwing stones now that were all for going in and doing the same thing.  I won't throw stones at any man who's making decisions based on what his advisors and other sources are telling him.  Georgie as you put it did not have first hand knowledge anymore than Clinton did, but yet Clinton had stated "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.  That is our bottom line."  Hell I wish Clinton would have had the backbone to go in and take care of business back then.  Maybe the World Trade Center and 4K US citizens would still be alive today.  Think about it.  Yeah I know, you're going to say that it wasn't Iraq that bombed us, I'm referring to both Afganistan and Iraq.  Hell even Siria too!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Harley »
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Offline Shoot-2-Kill

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« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2004, 09:02:57 PM »
Okay here is the deal guys, my buddys family is Military. Every Man is in the Marine Corp! His uncle flys the C-130 Galaxy and use to fly Helicopeters for the President. Now we were talking to his uncle about the Weapons Of Mass Destruction and he said that Bush was not in the wrong. He saaid that there is heavy evidence that he has flew back from Iraq that states that there could possibly be Weapons Of Mass Destruction in Iraq. So I am a firm beliver that Bush did the right thing and that he may have saved thousands of lives, even though it is not visible at this current time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Shoot-2-Kill »
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Offline gixser13

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« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2004, 10:04:00 PM »
I also have a buddie that is a Ranger, He told me they found WMD, But it was a hush hush deal, Ever think maybe Bush and the American people were lied to?(I can not go into details but this guy would not lie)  
I think Bush did the right thing and all my buddies over there right now feel the same way

If we didnt take care of Saddam today, My children and yours would have to deal with him tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by gixser13 »

Offline KenCasper

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« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2004, 05:55:41 AM »
Ok Folks, I wasn't gonna chime in, was just going to sit on the sidelines and watch after casting my vote several days back, but....

As most of you know I am currently over here in Iraq, I am at an old Iraqi Military Airbase in the soutern Half of Iraq, that the US Lead Forces have taken over and started to rebuild. There is a LARGE weapons storage facility just north by north east of here, where Chem weapons were stored up until the first Gulf War, and then Possibly after. They have found Chem and Biological Warheads here that were empty (no active agents in them).  Almost Every day The Italian EOD team blows Hundreds of pounds of old Explosives up here, and they still have hundreds of thousands of pounds to blow, and they have been at this since the war moved north of here.  They say this Storage Facility is small compaired tomost of the ones up north, and while they have "searched" it they are always finding new stuff around the bunkers, on the base here, and across the country side everyday that the Iraqi's buried.  These Items found include everything from old Airframes, rifles, AA cannons, UXO (old unexploded Ordance), and just about anything you could think of. Being in an Engineer Unit we dig up all kinds of crap everytime a blade hits the ground, and it is unbleiveable how much stuff was buried, I think you'd find less undergroud at the dump!

Now does this mean Bush didn't lie? Not Really, but I believe that he honestly believed the information given to him was proof of weapons here, and acted accordingly. Now if someone else lied to him, possibly. But as much as I hate this place (it isn't home), and would rather be back in Az, I still believe we did the right thing removing his Arse from power, even if it was 10 years late. And I can tell you that the majority of these folks here (Iraqi's) are glad we came, we have given them a new hope, a new chance to rebuild their counry and make it a better place. If you want to know how I know this, Everytime I've been around the locals, they all tell me this very thing.

Also For those interested here is a lil that tells you about where I'm at.
Tallil Airbase Iraq
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by KenCasper »
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